220 40997 <59b3971f-53bf-e0c3-f9f5-3d7a82646852@gmail.com> article Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Matthew Woehlke Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: Can we have beginner friendly new line and deprecate std::endl? Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2018 13:16:20 -0500 Lines: 43 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: <59b3971f-53bf-e0c3-f9f5-3d7a82646852@gmail.com> References: <7da1f33f-c2c1-482f-8fc2-c23a9767a5ec@isocpp.org> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1542132860 30671 195.159.176.226 (13 Nov 2018 18:14:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2018 18:14:20 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.0 To: std-proposals@isocpp.org, mihailnajdenov@gmail.com Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBC37LBFWUIFBB55JVTPQKGQEM4FXBRY@isocpp.org Tue Nov 13 19:14:16 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-qk1-f200.google.com ([209.85.222.200]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gMdCX-0007pa-Us for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; 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[66.194.253.20]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id s9sm14646810qta.35.2018.11.13.10.16.22 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 13 Nov 2018 10:16:22 -0800 (PST) Openpgp: preference=signencrypt In-Reply-To: <7da1f33f-c2c1-482f-8fc2-c23a9767a5ec@isocpp.org> Content-Language: en-US X-Original-Sender: mwoehlke.floss@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=GwGv57XS; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mwoehlke.floss@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.65 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mwoehlke.floss@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: std-proposals@isocpp.org X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:40997 Archived-At: On 10/11/2018 10.24, mihailnajdenov@gmail.com wrote: > There is some sort of miscommunication. > The fact there no C++ way to insert a new line (only a UNIX special > character way) is what I state an issue, > considering the rest of the API Huh? '\n' is not "a UNIX special character". It is an escape sequence that refers to the NEWLINE character. Escape sequences are important. Not only should most programmers be familiar with at least '\n', but also '\'', '\"' and of course '\\'. Lacking this familiarity is just a recipe for getting into trouble when needing to have these characters in a string. As for NEWLINE, it is not UNIX specific. It is true that "UNIX" the the line ending standard that uses '\n' by itself to mark the ends of lines of files on disk, but it is *also* the standard for files being processed in "text" mode. *On ALL platforms*. In fact, it is more possible to be ignorant of the existence of other line ending conventions than to be ignorant that at a code level, '\n' is *the* correct way to end lines. > But C++ streams are different, having to spell out a special character is > odd and unintuitive for a beginner and a design deficiency in general. So how do you print quote characters? Or backslashes? Or *any* "non-printable" character? Trying to avoid teaching escaped characters, which exist in virtually EVERY computer language (not just "programming" languages, but markup languages as well) is just dumb. -- Matthew -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/59b3971f-53bf-e0c3-f9f5-3d7a82646852%40gmail.com. .