220 40970 article Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Bryce Adelstein Lelbach aka wash Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: Can we have beginner friendly new line and deprecate std::endl? 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[209.85.220.41]) by mx.google.com with SMTPS id d5sor8718659oth.138.2018.11.11.17.26.41 for (Google Transport Security); Sun, 11 Nov 2018 17:26:41 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of brycelelbach@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.41 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.41; X-Received: by 2002:a9d:640d:: with SMTP id h13mr9065461otl.153.1541986000827; Sun, 11 Nov 2018 17:26:40 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: brycelelbach@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=Sk+mlavA; spf=pass (google.com: domain of brycelelbach@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.41 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=brycelelbach@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: std-proposals@isocpp.org X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:40970 Archived-At: --000000000000d4010b057a6d97f5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I'd rather just focus on providing a modern replacement for iostreams for C++26, and aim to deprecate iostreams in the future. Standard library dynamic constructors violate the zero cost abstraction principle. std::cout and friends must go. On Thu, Nov 8, 2018, 5:37 AM Wouldn't it be miles better to instead of un-teaching people from > std::endl and advertise '\n' > > to have equally attractive alternative? > > The point is - '\n' is not in any way beginner friendly as it is not an > std or build in "command"/object, but some alien symbol (to a new comer) > like, literally nothing else - it does not even look a single character. > Even for a non-beginner, some prefer typing std::endl as it is just simple > letters, not rarely used symbols (double colon, is not rarely used a t all) > > Also, if we have a friendly new line alternative we could deprecate endl > and teach to new-line-and-flush-if-needed. > Without deprecating it, we might add confusion. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. > To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/e17189bf-51be-496d-845a-3707a516a210%40isocpp.org > > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/CAP3wax_sPnk2FVbZj%2BKPoVcakkBAkGSP6ZcQZUSts52hc2E60g%40mail.gmail.com. --000000000000d4010b057a6d97f5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'd rather just focus on providing a modern repl= acement for iostreams for C++26, and aim to deprecate iostreams in the futu= re.

Standard library dyn= amic constructors violate the zero cost abstraction principle. std::cout an= d friends must go.

On Thu, Nov 8, 2018, 5:37 AM <mihailnajdenov@gmail.com wrote:
Wouldn't it be miles b= etter to instead of un-teaching people from std::endl and advertise '\n'= ; to have equally attractive alternative?

The point = is - '\n' is not in any way beginner friendly as it is not an std o= r build in "command"/object, but some alien symbol (to a new come= r) like, literally nothing else - it does not even look a single character.=
Even for a non-beginner, some prefer typing std::endl as it is j= ust simple letters, not rarely used symbols (double colon, is not rarely us= ed a t all)=C2=A0

Also, if we have a friendly new = line alternative we could deprecate endl and teach to new-line-and-flush-if= -needed.=C2=A0
Without deprecating it, we might add confusion.=C2= =A0=C2=A0



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