220 40924 <8e5e9eab-3bc0-41df-9143-990fd1102d8c@isocpp.org> article Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Ray Hamel Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: Can we have beginner friendly new line and deprecate std::endl? Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 08:57:21 -0800 (PST) Lines: 104 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: <8e5e9eab-3bc0-41df-9143-990fd1102d8c@isocpp.org> References: Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_552_583621602.1541696241386" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1541696118 5891 195.159.176.226 (8 Nov 2018 16:55:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 16:55:18 +0000 (UTC) Cc: mihailnajdenov@gmail.com To: ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBDPM7JNEVQJRB4WVSHPQKGQEFCP2QPI@isocpp.org Thu Nov 08 17:55:14 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-yw1-f72.google.com ([209.85.161.72]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gKnaL-0001LA-Nw for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2018 17:55:13 +0100 Original-Received: by mail-yw1-f72.google.com with SMTP id c123-v6sf15447889ywf.9 for ; Thu, 08 Nov 2018 08:57:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=isocpp-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; bh=hzzOPdBwQlutkJr0+p5XLrstgn1qz48qMeub6/pXAv0=; b=hHqTy310chAlbXOe1xGY29GSV/XmSNm1N1rrjuE3o0Pr15HCElD5eVSkr7AUDBBcr5 2BxITSuNXDxgqKgbF2FQ4041e0xC1V62AxtjojpEwp2iKaoeBPp4/UG9L9nYxqUA4I0O Z+d2r3D3TRvQTx702r6dTgK5SgwvT2FhKYGHtVfXppH/hb5oBBP6pZquPaym0omLnZFX ML+10vpAhvcoNNNSBh/Z6gUr48ww8Nyx70NSHRRV6h9/jIkbJhrPIGMt/rOdzx+npMd9 Lhf2CPXIdh51er6dXlTVtD7QzNwVnnTiYhBLDLTvzGGdWTAV74+1EUZTj3zdOJ5Sgdk5 nvCQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; bh=hzzOPdBwQlutkJr0+p5XLrstgn1qz48qMeub6/pXAv0=; b=DiV30wFvfoc42UMDYVfTNfCu4hKXiGJJ+aPIaswDOl+dC6bRzuF/5pHeEw/qcWhNaL PlIIInE6a/cEF42Ns9dq+cf3yqKq5A30xgtHy+AtNvZHpWgI3QjiTU2xpZ+Eu2v30K40 D1mEcafICN/gelQAcmjXKPjj/mxhNJrxq98HD4SeRnHCGYTErKiWv5g1G4kxLz2UQnd6 nwcRcqUn0rb05yQNxuL3zFIr+ixCogQWzE2rrROGkatVWgcEr7ybU88D1s3+d9+LbXDN gUu+4JGBcfU+w+yAHRMiZ9Lz5uteZUGl2xQyq8YCci2QZ3hk2ZakbK6+DCBSEkveu5vY ux3g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to :references:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=hzzOPdBwQlutkJr0+p5XLrstgn1qz48qMeub6/pXAv0=; b=eSKm4OqDn1FOXDiv7oH9m8EftqcnIQIVHyPZiz3MqtBwRIUWyjDhfuYhG2bfzBaVHI XnJSjUZXFxbbxXJjo0yMvrk/z7GAqnmv1E2pMc7Wu9ILx2JFrtpoTOrGsJOhClS5B0Ta IqeU0N6H0e2WIXSbGL+YgjkZsNnFIhq7+8XBdcE+cORrZJaJdU3O0DiK13Kek93pEM7w Cz9sQ1HxdZgZYyUzaHXGfet6o14eDsNEWyWOab9+7cK9lmhoZ8ruRnGGS/gO7m4hgQ2A DEofffrx9L0y5zPyMGiyofS3GU0pvxb4fNbdxUgyTiJ+nqfShiG3j38w+XHBnXonZgro r8gQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gJnknbKvDJxbGxBK12xw0NzsZLFyX64DvG52ENkAFMDpLr489Ju Fxj0ED3OZWg/hKV2nzC/o6b09Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5eVV9if2F4jKzu/BBRTKHlpU7hPwMnOuyMmpOzwgzZPaHv3U4GYG04E/z0uW89FwPVncim0KA== X-Received: by 2002:a25:ba8a:: with SMTP id s10-v6mr2610129ybg.81.1541696243422; Thu, 08 Nov 2018 08:57:23 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 2002:a81:3d45:: with SMTP id k66-v6ls1390478ywa.11.gmail; Thu, 08 Nov 2018 08:57:22 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:a81:9ec9:: with SMTP id v192-v6mr65750ywg.2.1541696241994; Thu, 08 Nov 2018 08:57:21 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: rayghamel@gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: std-proposals@isocpp.org X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:40924 Archived-At: ------=_Part_552_583621602.1541696241386 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_553_153898063.1541696241386" ------=_Part_553_153898063.1541696241386 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I don't see any reason why '\n' or "string literal\n" is unintuitive or would need to be replaced. I do think it's a good idea to rename std::endl to something less misleading, and deprecate the old std::endl. - Ray On Thursday, November 8, 2018 at 8:37:54 AM UTC-5, mihailn...@gmail.com wrote: > > Wouldn't it be miles better to instead of un-teaching people from > std::endl and advertise '\n' > > to have equally attractive alternative? > > The point is - '\n' is not in any way beginner friendly as it is not an > std or build in "command"/object, but some alien symbol (to a new comer) > like, literally nothing else - it does not even look a single character. > Even for a non-beginner, some prefer typing std::endl as it is just simple > letters, not rarely used symbols (double colon, is not rarely used a t all) > > Also, if we have a friendly new line alternative we could deprecate endl > and teach to new-line-and-flush-if-needed. > Without deprecating it, we might add confusion. > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/8e5e9eab-3bc0-41df-9143-990fd1102d8c%40isocpp.org. ------=_Part_553_153898063.1541696241386 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I don't see any reason why '\n'= or "string liter= al\n" is unintuitive or would need to = be replaced. I do think it's a good idea to rename std::endl to something less mislead= ing, and deprecate the old std::endl.

- Ray<= br>

On Thursday, November 8= , 2018 at 8:37:54 AM UTC-5, mihailn...@gmail.com wrote:
Wouldn't it be miles better t= o instead of un-teaching people from std::endl and advertise '\n' to h= ave equally attractive alternative?

The point is - '= \n' is not in any way beginner friendly as it is not an std or build in= "command"/object, but some alien symbol (to a new comer) like, l= iterally nothing else - it does not even look a single character.
Even for a non-beginner, some prefer typing std::endl as it is just simple= letters, not rarely used symbols (double colon, is not rarely used a t all= )=C2=A0

Also, if we have a friendly new line alter= native we could deprecate endl and teach to new-line-and-flush-if-needed.= =C2=A0
Without deprecating it, we might add confusion.=C2=A0=C2= =A0



--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposa= ls+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.= com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/8e5e9eab-3bc0-41df-9143-990fd1102d8c= %40isocpp.org.
------=_Part_553_153898063.1541696241386-- ------=_Part_552_583621602.1541696241386-- .