220 40922 article Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Hyman Rosen Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: Can we have beginner friendly new line and deprecate std::endl? 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[209.85.220.41]) by mx.google.com with SMTPS id h7-v6sor3276823wru.33.2018.11.08.07.48.00 for (Google Transport Security); Thu, 08 Nov 2018 07:48:00 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of hyman.rosen@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.41 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.41; X-Received: by 2002:adf:b593:: with SMTP id c19-v6mr4846815wre.223.1541692079662; Thu, 08 Nov 2018 07:47:59 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: hyman.rosen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=RWVHU7f1; spf=pass (google.com: domain of hyman.rosen@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.41 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=hyman.rosen@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: std-proposals@isocpp.org X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:40922 Archived-At: --000000000000c2ea8e057a292886 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" '\n' has been the way to write newlines in C for half a century. It's also the way to do it in C++, Java, Perl, Python, and other languages. We don't need a beginner-friendly way to specify newlines, because it's as easy to tell the beginners '\n' as to tell them anything else. On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 8:37 AM wrote: > Wouldn't it be miles better to instead of un-teaching people from > std::endl and advertise '\n' > > to have equally attractive alternative? > > The point is - '\n' is not in any way beginner friendly as it is not an > std or build in "command"/object, but some alien symbol (to a new comer) > like, literally nothing else - it does not even look a single character. > Even for a non-beginner, some prefer typing std::endl as it is just simple > letters, not rarely used symbols (double colon, is not rarely used a t all) > > Also, if we have a friendly new line alternative we could deprecate endl > and teach to new-line-and-flush-if-needed. > Without deprecating it, we might add confusion. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. > To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/e17189bf-51be-496d-845a-3707a516a210%40isocpp.org > > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/CAHSYqdYpsmvjRc65vKqPv4f6G6MzSgo1LL_73QDum66mxRB3EQ%40mail.gmail.com. --000000000000c2ea8e057a292886 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
'\n' has been the way to write newlines in C for h= alf a century.
It's also the way to do it in C++, Java, Perl, Python= , and other languages.
We don't need a beginner-friendly way to spec= ify newlines,
because it's as easy to tell the beginners '\n= 9; as to tell them anything else.

On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 8:37 AM <mihailnajdenov@gmail.com> wrote:
Wouldn't it be miles better= to instead of un-teachin= g people from std::endl and advertise '\n' to have equally attr= active alternative?

The point is - '\n' is not i= n any way beginner friendly as it is not an std or build in "command&q= uot;/object, but some alien symbol (to a new comer) like, literally nothing= else - it does not even look a single character.
Even for a non-= beginner, some prefer typing std::endl as it is just simple letters, not ra= rely used symbols (double colon, is not rarely used a t all)=C2=A0

Also, if we have a friendly new line alternative we could = deprecate endl and teach to new-line-and-flush-if-needed.=C2=A0
W= ithout deprecating it, we might add confusion.=C2=A0=C2=A0



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