220 40555 article Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: mihailnajdenov@gmail.com Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: against P1274R0 add $ to identifier names Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 07:30:51 -0700 (PDT) Lines: 115 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: References: Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_2106_1523889639.1539700251521" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1539700128 31126 195.159.176.226 (16 Oct 2018 14:28:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 14:28:48 +0000 (UTC) Cc: pasa@lib.hu To: ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBCUJ3A7GRAPRBHHMS7PAKGQE62F4Z7Q@isocpp.org Tue Oct 16 16:28:44 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-yw1-f71.google.com ([209.85.161.71]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gCQKx-0007zD-ID for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 16:28:43 +0200 Original-Received: by mail-yw1-f71.google.com with SMTP id f66-v6sf14707909ywa.0 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 07:30:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=isocpp-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; bh=+D6OkNkoAxIJ8O3g95zpwWQyqecR/y1uPmeDb6EPR1I=; b=0+iX/0SldFrTpREpkV12eHwmmwJD9utTlwx11t8iMDQuyl7xWEz3uuQhAsaxy/42th xeYLFp1Gousung8rnmPLYe2gYYnl2WkLSMF2YgM6XACDp9rbCzDZ+1XfOkqgaPZSfmYp z1clq0k3tzbns973uwRwxOa2OzZ2tFRna3Cuv3Adyw47kf2AFrHLHDTwXvlSufuHqaWx HKfuOLwMPdO9TqroZSDNtefYBPXIccR2iSLM/t9UQsIdlGz8UinwIumd/TmfO3l7DAM3 QuRnGjnCHXzMyCYOHGA54ai4EUmfKsJrbaQSZmzwVuvJda1uvtQcHFAehDbSu3c7N6Dk K8Qw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; bh=+D6OkNkoAxIJ8O3g95zpwWQyqecR/y1uPmeDb6EPR1I=; b=iy3Z5rNJ0qynD7ZL4t9rD3u8NG26mg+YrOLoqX0JXqv24kN2CNATnyalsztOHFfGjx ofCtDMtkfYgY1MKLNJxymNmGN1OTIaukHh8jA1w0FXDfwMdZ8Yd6R+D/srb312GSp8QQ NDaXdZ38SS0oerNk78c2I12yZt8/bSsQX9RAUo9w+6Bq86AjgzcRfh1U1uVxj025aLqh ob/IEfwn9l4RujOfQML5ucE62pSiFOBSp1Ej82WacvoM6XHZPKmsRC1qVu9CVdby9fit 9wKKOyp+zcGmasDWHQH1olAHI0NpXK3COj8B3GMtPHIbO/QxAmzVN7T7+ATzS9Qbc1vj 6sYg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to :references:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=+D6OkNkoAxIJ8O3g95zpwWQyqecR/y1uPmeDb6EPR1I=; b=MwN4dD1fA80+UNNluhsBMqJT1FN0R5nyEO2uVU+fsSW9DWG246II6bDJrSHCmLCaNi zJLzfjEXg2oJAuCh2XM6RjTeelHDTq7m5hSQFdHLUk9lSZoaI1SbYZaVhj61m6l5GhKJ mx9WPD+Rl4VuZUw8ioLOAJ0lxAFTRhou/Su6LSS+zrSvwRuguwLHhAicX/mmJztdgymg tZyuUrGqOBBk4WryiqGc0glxUgWAEY/qLjCyEjAAJVcEVPmS27FujGNYSxAkO6H/gduh vBrtd26yvjT612dE1i/dNVycUb/WnuriA8bQGXSsgpRu9UBbhBSFzNLrQztfSBoOoN44 n7jA== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfogu9pw2Kj0L+FjE5T9MNwAIx4K4BGYJHf3+GT5Tl+NcR6LNklpi nzSs3ez8DuflEC0wSwMyf/FAYw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV616Hp0N/o3zC23OVt2/Nd2l2Hozgw7GQ/n27H/SV8dwWEdGBq70pdSjG34pwFR3Si4pW0ermw== X-Received: by 2002:a81:ad1e:: with SMTP id l30-v6mr13141746ywh.8.1539700253786; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 07:30:53 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 2002:a25:5f4a:: with SMTP id h10-v6ls6611989ybm.3.gmail; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 07:30:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a25:d245:: with SMTP id j66-v6mr277987ybg.2.1539700252380; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 07:30:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: MihailNajdenov@gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: std-proposals@isocpp.org X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:40555 Archived-At: ------=_Part_2106_1523889639.1539700251521 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2107_1278629117.1539700251522" ------=_Part_2107_1278629117.1539700251522 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Absolutely. Not a single motivation was given, not even an example where it will be "nice". I haven't checked the latest batch of mails, so no wonder I missed it, but I see this author has submitted whopping 20 papers! On Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 4:14:37 PM UTC+3, pa...@lib.hu wrote: > > > http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2018/p1274r0.html > > Proposes to make $ available in identifier names. I could not locate any > justification in the paper, just the author's opinion. > > As I see things there are some characters left unused, not part of the > basic set that we (IMO) are accessible everywhere. We could and maybe > should add them to the basic set. $ and @ jumps to mind, possibly others > exist. > > When trigraphs were stripped from the language WG21 kinda declared that > "all world is ASCII and the others are out of luck". Following that really > the whole 7-bit ASCII set could be game, but I'd go with a more friendly > way this time, checking EBCDIC and other still used sets. As far as I see $ > and @ would not create an availability problem in practice. > > On the other side, extending the basic set could hose language extensions. > If someone has tools either running before the compiler or inside it now > can expect some characters not present in the grammar part of source code > so can be safely piched up for extensions. I heard Apple folks objecting > on $ for some new syntax on that ground. Such concerns are good to consider. > > But in any case I would use a character extension to help adding new > operators, punctuators, language syntax. To support the magnitude of new > features we are adding, that might easier to read compared to new > multi-character operators or another overload of existing operators. > > For identifiers we have no shortage of characters. I would not extend that > set even if we put away all mangling/linker related potential problems. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/b6ecf33d-f3e0-474b-8876-34bd023ec9d2%40isocpp.org. ------=_Part_2107_1278629117.1539700251522 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Absolutely. Not a single motivation was given, not even an= example where it will be "nice". I haven't checked the lates= t batch of mails, so no wonder I missed it, but I see this author has submi= tted whopping 20 papers!


On Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 4:14:3= 7 PM UTC+3, pa...@lib.hu wrote:

http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2018= /p1274r0.html

Proposes to make $ available in identifier na= mes. I could not locate any justification in the paper, just the author'= ;s opinion.

As I see things there are some characters left unused, n= ot part of the basic set that we (IMO) are accessible everywhere. We could = and maybe should add them to the basic set. $ and @ jumps to mind, possibly= others exist.

When trigraphs were stripped from the language WG21 = kinda declared that "all world is ASCII and the others are out of luck= ". Following that really the whole 7-bit ASCII set could be game, but = I'd go with a more friendly way this time, checking EBCDIC and other st= ill used sets. As far as I see $ and @ would not create an availability pro= blem in practice.

On the other side, extending the basic set could h= ose language extensions. If someone has tools either running before the com= piler or inside it now can expect some characters not present in the gramma= r part of source code so can be safely piched up for extensions.=C2=A0 I he= ard Apple folks objecting on $ for some new syntax on that ground. Such con= cerns are good to consider.

But in any case I would use a character = extension to help adding new operators, punctuators, language syntax. To su= pport the magnitude of new features we are adding, that might easier to rea= d compared to new multi-character operators or another overload of existing= operators.

For identifiers we have no shortage of characters. I wou= ld not extend that set even if we put away all mangling/linker related pote= ntial problems.

--
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