220 40389 <1f9ce37e-8a55-4e48-8f84-6ace99617160@isocpp.org> article Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Niall Douglas Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: Optional fixed point arithmetic was standardised into C in 2008. Why doesn't C++ adopt it? Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2018 12:45:27 -0700 (PDT) Lines: 100 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: <1f9ce37e-8a55-4e48-8f84-6ace99617160@isocpp.org> References: Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_390_985588182.1539027927582" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1539027804 32538 195.159.176.226 (8 Oct 2018 19:43:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2018 19:43:24 +0000 (UTC) To: ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBDGKFT5YZADRBWHH53OQKGQEZEAQE5Q@isocpp.org Mon Oct 08 21:43:20 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-yb1-f200.google.com ([209.85.219.200]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1g9bR0-0008JM-U7 for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2018 21:43:19 +0200 Original-Received: by mail-yb1-f200.google.com with SMTP id n8-v6sf12169806ybo.9 for ; Mon, 08 Oct 2018 12:45:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=isocpp-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=TDZ4zRhhTLiFKZUZ91cFzqbCKdGads63AdAt4aJ5v6E=; b=n6KzSGmakBZ+e4U9Rn+xon1PwL35TqtWKHXj/gQUynRZRBWDHDJ6BROzBfg1N6sQ6y tqg8yFp5v3/oqJPtSfCs7ZxqmUWk4SHx6UAjelpJpRo0J9gd2sm7HI2js1KwsZvZFdJi NFRK+YPHnGKrPyvYTRxDbyLRe2HNhECXduXKZC7Jbsbxp6z9v3VXZ3168LC4OGGJkXjI FWWuiGSzusBU4CQU5T4vrjzTRmk8g8T2TmEVtMZMF02zfeqkeFq0cma87PRv9jzfaz6G LiHcdHTWVaTbTkY5U3rN/7c4Ex0KmiGVXpklILXYl+Jyyyn7rSsTWKRj9VmP7C6U3LKM n2zA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=TDZ4zRhhTLiFKZUZ91cFzqbCKdGads63AdAt4aJ5v6E=; b=XBxETtj0D1SuZStZumxBgOdhz5LGoDGmmc2fI847hwFgmKBVzumH+wVgCa45jbJLug lzOa5lI+gQcZWw+OXaF6KLAnYYLXAFSuZCv4hR1YkiIGOyohc6XR70qU5M99XOB3CUqH wVuM1clg9U56jagRc365rHlB4RK32scOI+CKpSgRXjW6+x0kqzRZqjSngAxOaJpSoz25 6ZYWoYskz6TxIqMfJpVqquubYy0485tQ9jICrZQQ80B/l/y2rpuF57LuOeUIvv5v/ppx caYHRSl+OQklzFTXXRsrb0BdeYfNbULLMNl+963tZH17jLOWtlSihXq3n+3iYD3YAv+h jjOw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references :subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence :mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help :list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=TDZ4zRhhTLiFKZUZ91cFzqbCKdGads63AdAt4aJ5v6E=; b=AiPBmpX1HuUS52WA4NISUVZtd3CoVzOOoMpDlX02JZ9iqMYLv01VxtEshtNBgFBv/m orBBpfpHQNWuOgPWgYJ0yYsBkVgutHRUZQrc+KAuFu2JvQwEHHtcFRHj2iFi16mYmGNI 6eX3aYSkUa1/iklGMCQK2keQeSli0/dxqYI8xUD/RPz1QhELwOg+3YK1v810FUHd8rio WLWdPc9oS3BZ2OCEzV5taxustuiklfJFToZXSjFJ+G9+sdh16eIucv2pBSgKJuaV3H3i Du4expzDrC0HDvel/3y/hyDBikWHusNVTy1nAIrIGtuGrHVdbPj1PhsnvbdHH4wgymNi QByg== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoixMg7JSq8zdmCNTcW2Dml+hL+thBA4cNu652Xcao9/e+GBIr3Z imnjdzMAOxNqDUL1V/b/kRwhxg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV62kYIDdycBAK+6/Qu4zlX1CBlc7XWl0JF7Ea+fvCEas4M1omnt9A3kBdqkp5oIslEGk8fjF1Q== X-Received: by 2002:a81:af15:: with SMTP id n21-v6mr14043556ywh.3.1539027929370; Mon, 08 Oct 2018 12:45:29 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 2002:a81:3984:: with SMTP id g126-v6ls537670ywa.4.gmail; Mon, 08 Oct 2018 12:45:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a81:57cd:: with SMTP id l196-v6mr267591ywb.4.1539027928155; Mon, 08 Oct 2018 12:45:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: nialldouglas14@gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: std-proposals@isocpp.org X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:40389 Archived-At: ------=_Part_390_985588182.1539027927582 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_391_746561743.1539027927583" ------=_Part_391_746561743.1539027927583 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > So, learned something new from WG14 today, namely that C standardised > optional fixed point arithmetic back in 2004, with a second edition in > 2008. I didn't know that before. Here is a pre-publication draft of the > standard ISO/IEC TR 18037:2008: > > > > http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n1169.pdf > > > > Why doesn't WG21 simply adopt this instead of the (library) fixed point > arithmetic proposals currently before it? > > Probably for the same reason why complex is a library type in C++; > WG21 thinks it can do better with a library approach than > with a built-in one. > Well, sure. But I really wish the authors of the relevant papers before WG21 described in their motivation why they think that a library approach is clearly superior to an already published standard. That's a fairly high bar, in my opinion, to meet when essentially proposing "I don't think the standardised way is sufficient for reasons A, B and C. Here's what I propose instead ...". And I don't remember such explanatory text in motivations. I was hoping somebody could link me to such a text, I could read it, and as someone without domain expertise in fixed point arithmetic, I could go away feeling satisfied WG21 is on the right track on this. Niall -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/1f9ce37e-8a55-4e48-8f84-6ace99617160%40isocpp.org. ------=_Part_391_746561743.1539027927583 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> So, learned something new= from WG14 today, namely that C standardised optional fixed point arithmeti= c back in 2004, with a second edition in 2008. I didn't know that befor= e. Here is a pre-publication draft of the standard ISO/IEC TR 18037:2008:
>
> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc= 22/wg14/www/docs/n1169.pdf
>
> Why doesn't WG21 simply adopt this instead of the (library) fi= xed point arithmetic proposals currently before it?

Probably for the same reason why complex is a library type in C++;
WG21 thinks it can do better with a library approach than
with a built-in one.

Well, sure. But I really wish the auth= ors of the relevant papers before WG21 described in their motivation why th= ey think that a library approach is clearly superior to an already publishe= d standard. That's a fairly high bar, in my opinion, to meet when essen= tially proposing "I don't think the standardised way is sufficient= for reasons A, B and C. Here's what I propose instead ...". And I= don't remember such explanatory text in motivations. I was hoping some= body could link me to such a text, I could read it, and as someone without = domain expertise in fixed point arithmetic, I could go away feeling satisfi= ed WG21 is on the right track on this.

Niall
=

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