220 39840 <037bdc3e-6030-41d6-ae70-3849cca0585c@isocpp.org> article Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: mihailnajdenov@gmail.com Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: What do we want from named paramaters Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 14:01:08 -0700 (PDT) Lines: 103 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: <037bdc3e-6030-41d6-ae70-3849cca0585c@isocpp.org> References: <1534441498.3721109.1476442920.71D445BF@webmail.messagingengine.com> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_575_923338648.1534453268345" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1534453145 28282 195.159.176.226 (16 Aug 2018 20:59:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 20:59:05 +0000 (UTC) To: ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBCUJ3A7GRAPRBFOM27NQKGQENENKUDA@isocpp.org Thu Aug 16 22:59:01 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-yw1-f72.google.com ([209.85.161.72]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fqPMC-0007Ef-EQ for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 22:59:00 +0200 Original-Received: by mail-yw1-f72.google.com with SMTP id v14-v6sf4913055ywv.18 for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 14:01:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=isocpp-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=sZLZoMprLY1erESO3WSmtrut+Mg/9mK+6QWXreaNz9Q=; b=qsfWCl/Z265QQEkN2IvcLmH7R1r9utwPCDvlb8szEt3CTASmAkHSj7SHEmaYygyICL zky+oiDavluyqf6WZ38ogqr6OEUbWStaDAp+106aqsN+NDosraScSdKoUJ6rtlDjeanf UxlCsQ5jqV0jHvLbAfL9VVTqRoUcCRLVxN1+2XDSF9Ii94sUoI2mA5Q8XInlbYB0NqNP t6RqJQYCPriN9jhfa1+oX95jOQPTxZcK25f1+5lSvUdsODCs+4C3xHTYKukyRRhYhBya 7DVgsLzYSns08VfW96C3f1cLHaRbTxvuXdZbNwDyZLtbye8RAjBhSaV9DV4aNtHX0mVA 0GOQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=sZLZoMprLY1erESO3WSmtrut+Mg/9mK+6QWXreaNz9Q=; b=BmxRuuhWZ2O7Irc5vl837NbumEqn/VLA2Izjr1KJDt873OA33Rq3sTl+hAkHAz5VLg WRILKQTGHN959VZJEixx0CSuXATN9dRUJ+kgqUxASFmCQtvKZckJQ06K7vJWO+HGiiaf weqqT7M7gKW1uj4XFimUvNfrX0NxSmUtpOWwQ8XfkxJT/rXxrddr8XW6pCb4AQeSIwJC KJ6pMEkDVDfJFsd7F+qkQPTuPo5+7DEjPN/nQekSEwYtjXliPYmwEhcZ3KbGPWFOGDad ct+ZVU1OX+txIHZ8NjVnRmU+dtUovnsH+XeUUgGmAQbxtpOW6Pt40lg0+9EfzfE+HPQr +m4Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references :subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence :mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help :list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=sZLZoMprLY1erESO3WSmtrut+Mg/9mK+6QWXreaNz9Q=; b=ZVUylQw35VlYAMvxROVU0DXTnPxnTwjtkVtwawJyv0KA/26LwpXR2WGBN3rERYxMaK 1XY5GaV3EZX+zDBvaiT02MwjowPeMhRctBsSupUr2EkAPzGNpljf5IEg2zLnSbOcXeJu d13XPKKFoLppUH1yrlrtl8IWlhpeGT96rifC+BSwkxjWGHD+3bBYmu7UXmc7awVYtvyK +Lse7Hy9Nc1QLoahdlb4XGP+81gjWMOdfjIBSXmxjTa8F4wg8h2Oty4aHYwziY0javh+ MQEV/DLsGVYG8A7Xcikn7DQZ5qMQPCSfo5j19pDh1bb1Mp+eIhyQyEtl+ckwPJlN4zZy YI4w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlGgz1Zlp6Ga1qiiUysBZeC3gHFgnC994cDRbye/Q5u179vf9PMg beHMcoKnuBHsUdX6qIOQ5o9/4A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA+uWPwFZjD0vndPZA9u0u9i3vM0dljFPj6+jjgde8roc9oLx32DJjNWgyFB3JJqaP9UuqmosfQuXA== X-Received: by 2002:a0d:fa44:: with SMTP id k65-v6mr9704346ywf.82.1534453270457; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 14:01:10 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 2002:a0d:d414:: with SMTP id w20-v6ls769300ywd.13.gmail; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 14:01:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a0d:de01:: with SMTP id h1-v6mr602484ywe.3.1534453269073; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 14:01:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1534441498.3721109.1476442920.71D445BF@webmail.messagingengine.com> X-Original-Sender: MihailNajdenov@gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: std-proposals@isocpp.org X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:39840 Archived-At: ------=_Part_575_923338648.1534453268345 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_576_277744023.1534453268346" ------=_Part_576_277744023.1534453268346 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I will answer where I need them. First to freely use constructors with "many" arguments. I tend to prefer constructors in place of getter/setter and late initialization. This way I have tight control over the state of the object and know - public interface means someone *else* needs to access this, not "I need this for construction". Second, which is tied to the first, I need this for non-so-public interfaces, where things are not so stable and/or not so pretty. You mention Qt, but even Qt uses bool arg, in the non public interface! Yea, I also "never" use a bool, yet I have few places for sure, none of them public interface, but still. These two define my PoV: 1. Mainly need weak arguments, but stronger then comments and/or just warnings 2. No alternative will ever help me if it is *more* code and need *more* maintenance. But I want to iterate on the second point. Way, way to often there is the armchair argument "you should do this" or "you should do that", in pace of named arguments, and these are mostly correct (mostly), *if we talk about public interface. *The requirement for private, and/or semi stable, and/or work in progress code are different, and the code is different. With enough time, any interface can be pretty, even in C, but in practice, day to day, we need quick and practical ways for more correct code. (This all putting aside code that even pretty is vulnerable to confusion in general, like math, physics some algorithms) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/037bdc3e-6030-41d6-ae70-3849cca0585c%40isocpp.org. ------=_Part_576_277744023.1534453268346 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I will answer where I need them.

=
First to freely use constructors with "many" arguments.=C2= =A0
I tend to prefer constructors in place of getter/setter and l= ate initialization.=C2=A0
This way I have tight control over the = state of the object and know - public interface means someone else n= eeds to access this, not "I need this for construction".

Second, which is tied to the first, I need this for no= n-so-public interfaces, where things are not so stable and/or not so pretty= .. You mention Qt, but even Qt uses bool arg, in the non public interface!
Yea, I also "never" use a bool, yet I have few places fo= r sure, none of them public interface, but still.

= These two define my PoV:=C2=A0
1. Mainly need weak arguments, but= stronger then comments and/or just warnings
2. No alternativ= e will ever help me if it is more code and need more maintena= nce.=C2=A0

But I want to iterate on the second poi= nt.=C2=A0
Way, way to often there is the armchair argument "= you should do this" or "you should do that", in pace of name= d arguments, and these are mostly correct (mostly),=C2=A0
if w= e talk about public interface. The requirement for private, and/or semi= stable, and/or work in progress code are different, and the code is differ= ent.=C2=A0
With enough time, any interface can be pretty, eve= n in C, but in practice, day to day, we need quick and practical ways for m= ore correct code.
(This all putting aside code that even pretty i= s vulnerable to confusion in general, like math, physics some algorithms)


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposa= ls+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.= com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/037bdc3e-6030-41d6-ae70-3849cca0585c= %40isocpp.org.
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