220 39754 <42112917-d345-96d3-e86e-4e307cbe984f@gmail.com> article Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Matthew Woehlke Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: Thumbs Up for No Graphics Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 12:15:27 -0400 Lines: 41 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: <42112917-d345-96d3-e86e-4e307cbe984f@gmail.com> References: <7915a73c-e305-4bce-bf6e-28f20a7faccb@isocpp.org> <3217c680-4cf2-4098-8512-dde3347bef79@isocpp.org> <152720b0-b5f2-48e1-ab3e-e1c33fb6b39d@isocpp.org> <8d604a5e-7e1b-c6c4-0e03-e3137579dc94@gmail.com> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1534176805 19355 195.159.176.226 (13 Aug 2018 16:13:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 16:13:25 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 To: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBC37LBFWUIFBBIW5Y3NQKGQENMANIDY@isocpp.org Mon Aug 13 18:13:21 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-qk0-f198.google.com ([209.85.220.198]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fpFT7-0004uo-1o for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; 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[66.194.253.20]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id s6-v6sm9895412qkb.26.2018.08.13.09.15.28 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 13 Aug 2018 09:15:28 -0700 (PDT) Openpgp: preference=signencrypt In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US X-Original-Sender: mwoehlke.floss@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=NHA52jYb; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mwoehlke.floss@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.41 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mwoehlke.floss@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: std-proposals@isocpp.org X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:39754 Archived-At: On 2018-08-13 11:48, Olaf van der Spek wrote: > 2018-08-13 17:37 GMT+02:00 Matthew Woehlke wrote: >> If you try to replace apt/dnf/etc. *without* doing so at the distro >> level, I *guarantee* you are just going to run into >> https://xkcd.com/927/ and make things worse. For that matter, if you try >> to start something new without taking into account what apt/dnf/etc. >> already provide, that's just a recipe for outright failure. > > Is it? For Java, Javascript, PHP and Ruby it seems to work quite well. ....and none of those are trying to *replace* apt/dnf/etc. None of them infringe on the core operating system, or indeed, I suspect even compete with it much. OTOH, pip is something of a mess because it *does* compete directly with apt/dnf/etc... as a result, we have system python, "system" pip installs, user-local pip installs, virtual environments, anaconda, python packages installed via other mechanisms to none of the above... ....oh, and, don't forget that developers are still going to need support for local installs that may not even be packaged at all... The languages you mentioned can get away with having an ecosystem that is totally divorced from the core operating system because they aren't providing things that *every* user demands. For example, a desktop, or a web browser. Those are going to depend on things like libjpeg, which means *at best* anything that competes with the system package manager is going to mean having duplicate copies of those dependencies. Personally, I think the value of trying to create yet another package manager for C/C++ packages is... dubious at best. (Except for Windows, because Windows doesn't already have a good one.) -- Matthew -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/42112917-d345-96d3-e86e-4e307cbe984f%40gmail.com. .