220 38420 article Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Hyman Rosen Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: Re: Thumbs Up for No Graphics Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 15:43:52 -0400 Lines: 79 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: References: <7915a73c-e305-4bce-bf6e-28f20a7faccb@isocpp.org> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000687cc1056d99ce3b" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1527882121 18518 195.159.176.226 (1 Jun 2018 19:42:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 19:42:01 +0000 (UTC) To: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBDKJJPVBQMKRBBOEY3MAKGQEYLZMF7A@isocpp.org Fri Jun 01 21:41:57 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-wm0-f72.google.com ([74.125.82.72]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fOpvv-0004h7-4M for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 21:41:55 +0200 Original-Received: by mail-wm0-f72.google.com with SMTP id t7-v6sf1216990wmg.3 for ; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 12:44:06 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1527882246; cv=pass; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=V858tieAUNT+jmCnwwvkdL6sjl3wGaz7/HrKMIKl1xmFm11jCtuRG7YWxyUfSDzudM cglC99mSJX23M2fzaCLV0BtTjqMgYYflVW/aUisfF7kafJIKcXLBWLUT4cXHnFJDQ59E Wh3KGFQ8/jFplteYjvEYEjjBYt/gJGAAsEZAd4Koe6rYLtJ9l7u/W8MnxpkzikejfPem n8hGP4pI/GfcLvvX8TIPf/extI+st0iy6Z7L06ZyEVA6X5SfvvpmXZz9fLoEg64lMmEy 4kf23f0uFdGJ1YiN/ORsLLsJlEwZM8B5Wmlzs1O2lLri9fSOHCSy3wcgYsTVBxW2IM4T oxhw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:reply-to:to:subject:message-id:date :from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:arc-authentication-results :arc-message-signature:dkim-signature:arc-authentication-results; bh=tI3z4hvL5AxX3CPwJpyV7FQ2qWd3M+YVVGnjVztjKes=; b=qZoGQV29eRJhC1KGqr1IDdLkBRbz0xxOnIICAi2e1U4BedKl8e53cKuRY4P2xNcAqa lJ5d/8nLyHLDsnz/+GVtCA4TgWTm8eDPCcqAyqxjtITV7ZnG0F6bWDlMUU0rUGz1xFeL cWtQlUN6o9OCe6KUcTo9i4M87Fg7gTlbR2x6RQeXUzX537iBWln8Sxqc2sND1FSKHrOZ qmej7x2sKY3dAz7xJg+y1mTuR1WcPCV/UWbVnxGGQbzpgrqHFWKwavj9Qrf4FBRCXCl9 TGlwTWWkr716Mfp6c1JSi82bBw3gYuEmLEZd7Ug+9AsKlJJRO1+Y3DWK+Vpd62nIVPnd Jfow== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=kufE9AVz; spf=pass (google.com: domain of hyman.rosen@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.41 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=hyman.rosen@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=isocpp-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=tI3z4hvL5AxX3CPwJpyV7FQ2qWd3M+YVVGnjVztjKes=; b=uDxleCyrutKnghvn5l8bfaeczOitQaLhb/t8kPm6cMxVqpRt6RpwjmTfzessSdXXkC Zobk47LZSjRGoLyZBXjXjsJCk0vis3vo33UwhVHWZUxrbreAZQ7Bf+8XPUZAsmeFva7K sCGh+OJvTY8RrmXdCn8AA6pB6OanY/lUt2NIocLjyoA8pRqxik3QOhPx8+R1b0HgShhV iTPt6OOC7ExVwZOzMq2A8bGbH6rituVUl/FSijEuWJYnRgYx3pWnzACuuO6UfORlqGqs P/m8d3Xo/SGxNO/tv9Q8zZErkXy+tLJUaC5SkSWUVhadOJRHiRojv2PYvi/4azCiSNcX eYrg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=tI3z4hvL5AxX3CPwJpyV7FQ2qWd3M+YVVGnjVztjKes=; b=MvGwt+XmNTgE7YBaVEhiDSLERqZcld5eGwe3x+DNE/6XDg+RLLUxvyAErCoKJvmgMm wG25TDMrAjdInCfJFMTInmQn6AsCy3WXi13+qvBlP8pqZO0xpUxi813ndyMwFb3DBCmO RHawNFm7kA+4mrjt7NJyyogJihdtbTlGatIq+Ai5ZYF6BtbstMROKhu6EP1FnRiVSBKn jz1N18baioJhnnw+/1Slm9t7KTwrQyJnyZsrtCMjeOqIIMIXAQublCiFssg1hqeWs2aq Pt/fGpOFFS+ZkmFlVJ7TMcxcmYiOL45pPXvVor7fA0DV24k0laFcP8W8CwOufQaB6Zzb A2PQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALKqPwd0SEXKXVXcAyj1NyUNceQ1tFAiVyq/PIjFmM+LoGSQ4Jdqh4Bf 46TKBfxL11/LJTCnswCwC6NggQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKIStL3gI1+67z6bucHLHBaQpbLnmCK+61KKkzzHavrOb/XLJGTatryA+DrYmM3vEQAkx4fX3w== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:32c1:: with SMTP id y184-v6mr1005342wmy.4.1527882246122; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 12:44:06 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 2002:adf:e981:: with SMTP id h1-v6ls13499819wrm.7.gmail; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 12:44:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:adf:b1ca:: with SMTP id r10-v6mr8957837wra.221.1527882244765; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 12:44:04 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1527882244; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=ZYwatuNvgkyQN5/kUIlvoyJT2P1A2GRQsHB8B2TwtdDX1v5SvRov8sW0Z957ZixyU3 CzmLOMWjrEhyTfvpeLtHgRGJB7SkWV0goKwcp6v0/9F5MtZg0e/u4kihOTuH1MuJV/Om oExDsVDng8r5Cz+PcOZXXyAHI5ltxlpk2QeqMw3WpmDyKon3aeKpvDXWUsRYOR1Wi5kx 9Di0ukOmeN4gikhk+Yn+HVFgFs5XJAKxtJPCOoVZ9qEAQwKz75SJdepNsexjNpnHkol0 GPiFvI59hx8caYlfn9VGBaS5Y+uaPas0kvjF9PKf17rQzCKziOrS0fYMith1F3U7GNcm xUDQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :dkim-signature:arc-authentication-results; bh=I/v+Gb468QZ1pbXhr82uBQvciGp6inONOVG0Lte2HQo=; b=ylQHz8ynpo3QjCnogrb/YkpG4JxGiCw8hoU0x3ewKB5wL0p6qFsN1kyGE9ohgsk0WN DOPoT4Bvi30PSQQb49ePImEU130h8QgI1C5bJtS4KigjBD7TQGusbHv7XUTYy63rEWhb l3x2v+UunkRS09X44ut8sv2fu7c9WhGwpjs/WP9ZIwnqm72BIpekU0WMrQ4IQgWnItJI PXFnd5aOzmgZODfZcv+CnxXGSBx4gzNggUVx0vMclwNB/RTe9um2NQIjYy327ryV5R1g eaeDhfTjqEtZUMQIOyLYEW51rolCURacC4HxV8Ld97uOYcUYWoQAVAr2P1c3kmtYaLYj I6Pw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=kufE9AVz; spf=pass (google.com: domain of hyman.rosen@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.41 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=hyman.rosen@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Original-Received: from mail-sor-f41.google.com (mail-sor-f41.google.com. [209.85.220.41]) by mx.google.com with SMTPS id h9-v6sor731723wmh.27.2018.06.01.12.44.04 for (Google Transport Security); Fri, 01 Jun 2018 12:44:04 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of hyman.rosen@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.41 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.41; X-Received: by 2002:a1c:c46:: with SMTP id 67-v6mr3661216wmm.79.1527882243929; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 12:44:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: hyman.rosen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=kufE9AVz; spf=pass (google.com: domain of hyman.rosen@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.41 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=hyman.rosen@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: std-proposals@isocpp.org X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:38420 Archived-At: --000000000000687cc1056d99ce3b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 12:32 PM Robert Ramey wrote: > The problem is that they are not standardized. > The standardization of [filesystem] contributes 46 pages to the C++ Standard, incorporates POSIX by reference, and is full of "for POSIX it does this and for Windows it does that" statements along with other waffling. (For example, the specification of absolute(const path&p) in [fs.op.absolute] contains this: *Implementations are strongly encouraged to ... not consider !exists(p) an error.*) I submit that standardizing file system operation in the C++ Standard hasn't really standardized much, since the underlying system dependencies are still showing through and have to be accounted for, and has added complexity and length to a standard that is already too complex and too long. Adding graphics would be a hundred times worse. Programming language standards should define the programming language. Functionality not required by the core language should be standardized separately, if people are moved to do it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/CAHSYqdYkh1BJe3UHVP_8AtdEspvBBKNK9E2or%2BdFLH83ajgyuA%40mail.gmail.com. --000000000000687cc1056d99ce3b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Jun 1,= 2018 at 12:32 PM Robert Ramey <ramey@rrsd.com> wrote:
The problem is that they are not standardized.

The= standardization of [filesystem] contributes 46 pages to the C++ Standard,<= br>incorporates POSIX by reference, and is full of "for POSIX it does = this and for
Windows it does that" statements along with other waff= ling.=C2=A0 (For example, the
specification of=C2=A0absolute(const path&p)=C2=A0in [fs.op.absolute] = contains this:
Implementations are strongly encouraged to ... not con= sider !exists(p) an error.)<= br>
I submit that standardizing file system operation in the C++ Standar= d hasn't
really standardized much, since the underlying system depen= dencies are still
showing through and have to be accounted for, and has = added complexity and
length to a standard that is already too complex an= d too long.=C2=A0 Adding graphics
would be a hundred times worse.
Programming language standards should define the programming language.
= Functionality not required by the core language should be standardized
s= eparately, if people are moved to do it.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposa= ls+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
To view this discussion on the web visit h= ttps://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/CAHSYqdYkh1BJe3= UHVP_8AtdEspvBBKNK9E2or%2BdFLH83ajgyuA%40mail.gmail.com.
--000000000000687cc1056d99ce3b-- .