220 37627 article Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Ren Industries Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: Why do we need `volatile` in C++? Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2018 22:07:11 +0000 Lines: 116 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: References: <044dfdd3-2313-4ce3-a5e2-3a23c1c0d678@isocpp.org> <9bc32039-04fe-42cd-abc4-49040cf3a6dc@isocpp.org> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045c11e44d30700568f8eea3" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1522793120 5426 195.159.176.226 (3 Apr 2018 22:05:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2018 22:05:20 +0000 (UTC) To: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBDILF3OBTACRBG7WR7LAKGQEEYLZHRA@isocpp.org Wed Apr 04 00:05:16 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-wr0-f199.google.com ([209.85.128.199]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1f3U3H-0001JZ-3O for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2018 00:05:15 +0200 Original-Received: by mail-wr0-f199.google.com with SMTP id d37sf10152729wrd.21 for ; Tue, 03 Apr 2018 15:07:24 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1522793244; cv=pass; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=a+N0VeIF/fSD59Fhh/ryzD2P48cCYkjkubTha5i/m/CM5F6l0tTkYPirr5Bq7ZX1oS 57iSpMAUUkwuRY4E53732B+GRBscn3zjUcpsx5b/kuIPmgaLCBe57e8HBylXD7lsNXiG 7mVZnt1geHyBaRD7vRHenoHyuwaVVBkRL+si5BbkTOUHT5xc6dxxrhKyrU0RLBsrpphQ 8sXmQnG1F7Z2TV5sft0rqqTOZqDWllJd6M/+XU07DvOJpW/L9dxYjuusHBwqfnl4bzuW dpnzJXO3WWrk3Bc4HV/KVJ+6oudCWXDoLDOT+h6JSKgVi1GccgJ/24LTqWO5NQVDKS2C P0vQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:reply-to:to:subject:message-id:date :from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:arc-authentication-results :arc-message-signature:dkim-signature:arc-authentication-results; bh=nEGBHlRampkkhs9Jps0p9W5/KmIWOzwY7ISaZ4AyeEI=; b=g27iaFP5Mfz0uV10OwmW2J6q2Ep7f0+uQW5TeldiHcLWWQjmi8Pr2vucZMtxBWUFIH cTe14CN02tqNNkh2lFIQd1UNokIoyyDfjUtwOfU+5teT80xkN6IgGm89W0S1oH86VMgg eipopayZCHYHZzWf7L2oI969MxSVmXCQ9fo/Efd3pOOFV0qGGw3ezpu8i0ylRwJpBLJ9 JoWKU39OL+qQ2ol58W5auKaWoBUWlLfmQgRY9ntmoy/J6gRqoIm0/LitQSU6fPNEwTBd AtaGkt6jT9nXyrpfzb6p7sTl2xY4DOFSOcB50n/Fq0yANwD/lfBdYX9QtxZe1udrA+kD rdxw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=uXaXMsEG; spf=pass (google.com: domain of renindustries@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.65 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=renindustries@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=isocpp-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=nEGBHlRampkkhs9Jps0p9W5/KmIWOzwY7ISaZ4AyeEI=; b=rtKhiwUSgr5aMQHb9MW2FyYiSZoKoR6wazV1TlAKnV340dJHRYJnAkeHuYj1ShSa7S b09aracH0vQ+kCRHTuB5SC/xmdcgb/2gJmwRmFhdMC9Mqi9cq7bBhJ6oZG7wu8FPq41v MzLyairotqo8Lx/+yhSZEZuDuxVo/6bzuZ/XVxdaUDGtRD5eVixzUElbnk3f4fp905Rt QkXCNh0FBBY54PlebQx5xkApeHnoikfRfsQOMtTxf/hSnr7c2t+wtV+u3yl6lFui4OK1 R7HbFckD7gmXAz6V3NReWn2sgfN6VmILoDDU0AgGFt3PRWteIsm/vhmX3Sbiu4ZmjdQE VU1w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=nEGBHlRampkkhs9Jps0p9W5/KmIWOzwY7ISaZ4AyeEI=; b=qBxX9M5+Xcx1qQjHplWxDVrgdboRG6DyV3NIAK37cOWBHzV7cca0HGUzrGYnndNUsW 7ZP0+9TVsrCmNiOkOyozBLFnqnS/fIArInMiRf1HSltzJuxFbz1yaeFX15kjHUn5+5QT tDzGIVDimyYnDw9I/IGrRVIPZNpHeK8W3TGhMGDfGYoBIXmKI4S9bP68vBYVZd2dgtgB q0tYuE6cUEhw+XnEszo6sy8GkNTruLqbPDHaW19vaL/Z+v2e/8rbEUKprgjJARBmH2z4 dUYNIYpgTMhya77t+nnvwjrrVuaCoIr9tQTYB1no5SIPeYjVD4PuqIQBr/MZ8PxnAhbB m97g== X-Gm-Message-State: AElRT7H20nFh0LOMgJnGpjL4zmFws6Ne6zWI4DkHgs+XoUF4/D2kznQy r5LMo7T9T8fX+CICMwvSADgiWg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AIpwx4+gtXceGEBCipxB4ZrkPnxEAzGnWTa0UZhn/pgP6dobGsm8m8cbAS99zavQzosqmv+EPe18Bg== X-Received: by 10.80.247.129 with SMTP id h1mr2379974edn.12.1522793244651; Tue, 03 Apr 2018 15:07:24 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 10.80.194.145 with SMTP id o17ls659695edf.6.gmail; Tue, 03 Apr 2018 15:07:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.80.152.55 with SMTP id g52mr17620376edb.31.1522793243310; Tue, 03 Apr 2018 15:07:23 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1522793243; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=PWE7zLwzhNCge1dZY6dUTSAVlXXo3/H9f6l4wehMMktLs1yYfkUC2BTrA70ksfu9UN x/4r4jM9MHFMT/uGHArFVeAnrHmmagYFcsAd88jh1TAVyrMUhJKNt2sWMx8EtPXCE8VO T5jsLkcbQjCxQNAvis/6yjY2TSleaKQFKT9p7Y2++uezse9tlAT4P4IoBxSQjcfFd9hZ jbEKrQH2lUFfMx3ueugd9kWT7ddVOF6b/WG4CbnsvxRsmsJAe0Qc3ypoazCTFy4fqfPd qyu+tbAfUfc59SEVMd1WJXUvJA1t47Mre4Xnfk12FUPK3lN5pzIJ1w8/7AQvrqvtTKpJ 0efg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :dkim-signature:arc-authentication-results; bh=kK4DBdcjwUcsCQeiW0hRUhCxAddj7j1fYZPRkuhDsdc=; b=1Bhcrl4DkCcFGj+9mDYoPU4u84O5Q99wfZ4rvbLwDtbYoICc7cCaeNp84spFPdw2tH 7VyO+xHUyR2jD/1H0k1p00AvcFtJ3g1FMXONzf8peG9XkvLrMtnYn1Di3IV3VfqUrhXM Mh8DyomfSq2UwOuJxANNWlA/ywdII3XzfUbUFKMMl9yCNGD7xy3JrsSn4OynABTPZdUs BZRYN6a/KNoL8rjxoQd6iDYePfCLhRIuW3fADRSbglGRwHwxeFVDIhykK7Ubixmi1ImQ IUDvGvMX+gs+eWbA6r9XeMl1fUxU61/hJtfCh6u//shFIedT4O6H8GovzY8DVUb2Fy/f 4L6Q== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=uXaXMsEG; spf=pass (google.com: domain of renindustries@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.65 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=renindustries@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Original-Received: from mail-sor-f65.google.com (mail-sor-f65.google.com. [209.85.220.65]) by mx.google.com with SMTPS id q6sor2212087edb.56.2018.04.03.15.07.23 for (Google Transport Security); Tue, 03 Apr 2018 15:07:23 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of renindustries@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.65 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.65; X-Received: by 10.80.142.147 with SMTP id w19mr18100405edw.172.1522793242766; Tue, 03 Apr 2018 15:07:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: RenIndustries@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=uXaXMsEG; spf=pass (google.com: domain of renindustries@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.65 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=renindustries@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: std-proposals@isocpp.org X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:37627 Archived-At: --f403045c11e44d30700568f8eea3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" It's not the "optimizationists" fault if you want to do something the language doesn't guarantee. You aren't writing c++ at that point, you are writing to the compiler specifications. On Tue, Apr 3, 2018, 18:05 Hyman Rosen wrote: > On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 5:28 PM, Andrey Semashev > wrote: >> >> I think, that expectation is wrong. The language doesn't give you such >> guarantees. > > > I write programs to achieve certain results. Those results must be > achieved. > If the basic constructs of the language can achieve those results, fine. > Otherwise the inability of the language must be circumvented. > > Personally, I try to never depend on the exact result when FP is involved. > > > That's nice. You don't, however, get to tell me what I need my code to do. > > well, tough luck > > > Yes, that summarizes the optimizationist viewpoint in a nutshell. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. > To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/CAHSYqdZ-BHgNWQSC4srXSP3oznBgnjGBBBE9cxdhr2mTmMQ%3DWA%40mail.gmail.com > > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/CAMD6iD-EWQPOciJdnVR6OCrx8N9hEVQKBkafDedJr-gBxh2MfA%40mail.gmail.com. --f403045c11e44d30700568f8eea3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It's not the "optimizationists" fault if yo= u want to do something the language doesn't guarantee. You aren't w= riting c++ at that point, you are writing to the compiler specifications.= =C2=A0

On Tue, Apr 3, = 2018, 18:05 Hyman Rosen <hyman.= rosen@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, = Apr 3, 2018 at 5:28 PM, Andrey Semashev <andrey= ..semashev@gmail.com> wrote:
I think, that expectation is wrong. The language doesn't give you such = guarantees.

I write programs to achieve certain result= s.=C2=A0 Those results must be achieved.
If the basic constructs of the = language can achieve those results, fine.
Otherwise the inability of the= language must be circumvented.

Personally, I try to never depend on the exact result when FP is involved.<= /blockquote>

That's nice.=C2=A0 You don't, however, get to = tell me what I need my code to do.

=C2=A0well, tough luck

Yes, that summarizes the op= timizationist viewpoint in a nutshell.=C2=A0

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.= org/d/msgid/std-proposals/CAHSYqdZ-BHgNWQSC4srXSP3oznBgnjGBBBE9cxdhr2mTmMQ%= 3DWA%40mail.gmail.com.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposa= ls+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
To view this discussion on the web visit htt= ps://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/CAMD6iD-EWQPOciJd= nVR6OCrx8N9hEVQKBkafDedJr-gBxh2MfA%40mail.gmail.com.
--f403045c11e44d30700568f8eea3-- .