220 36854 article Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Nicol Bolas Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: String interpolation Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 13:37:27 -0800 (PST) Lines: 115 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: References: <356d5835-f1bf-4699-94f5-0b2d3d0b9c0e@isocpp.org> <14112472.AvYaaQfdXc@tjmaciei-mobl1> <3073671.g2Bv754bdN@tjmaciei-mobl1> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_3215_1142360921.1518212247677" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1518212161 19099 195.159.176.226 (9 Feb 2018 21:36:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 21:36:01 +0000 (UTC) To: ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBCEKFTV6ZUMBBGFJ7DJQKGQEMB4KN7I@isocpp.org Fri Feb 09 22:35:57 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-ua0-f200.google.com ([209.85.217.200]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ekGKK-0002nV-Ig for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2018 22:35:24 +0100 Original-Received: by mail-ua0-f200.google.com with SMTP id g9sf5546020ual.8 for ; Fri, 09 Feb 2018 13:37:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=isocpp-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=4rfdcAsJX+OcXsU7bd4IQQu6nsHS4n1Z/wWoBZhtrd8=; b=GYi7r9ClM/6c+qPP6bPhyps0Ha0VAxCcJbhHdeMCbPoy+P8y+bdZArfTksKvo7SWQI RNiwaNIRxqC4lvsFKkiFScRLoT6vP279Z3K1gvwgZyvldc/IWmQr6JNCt0ng+SSMyTOT nAJwbkd4OmzCChdMySdNWhH3CxkUn44Fbksvd+yfU0dZm2dnvknfvwuopq3a0l54yYvV sHPvsW1EsHzSQxvyZU6DHLtILxi+9sbjQ4MMSg8nnNTijOVScuDwnNqnZywMMyCVLvAQ eBdGNojEUO+p396zBrLC7mnqNU1TTYxQT7tx5C6+r8hTqJSKOz5lQ/LCOzVCL7jEDXL2 EcAg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=4rfdcAsJX+OcXsU7bd4IQQu6nsHS4n1Z/wWoBZhtrd8=; b=OySuNQGYjDPHSuVQn5npvQOAS7jeTBcKUb5EBINcALpH7PDM9t1NtDGwmddnALz5Dk bl9FK9aU6ppb7+nQsL5ArzWiOf62ONEhqRzrL8v92PmnRwhIyQxHUzL7A6n8J3NJavJd R9BWuXBmuDgHhqGElr/O7oRJxG02CMdWT+YyrhHuM8qkjAA90mOQ/ZbF7XP+lp7yzxvs drxwYj+mqhArHp4hUXVj1kytuNCXJGzNfpdQVWa8uZW+PJwdgtLjyBC9bQIuXs1NSrO1 lX0DcB2W0VP6wBNsqzpHMYHpgb77MFaxuRyGOEunpKbOd9q/nX3tbaAvfBPBgL/BAsS7 nyMg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references :subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence :mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help :list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=4rfdcAsJX+OcXsU7bd4IQQu6nsHS4n1Z/wWoBZhtrd8=; b=mVLzriLLVtoT1c1Kd3GV/CZiFU+wpmMMPeHLPFLVp0Co7UZKS9jQexN0tIFeVuYQQ4 QabSYlo0iWLND2aPBaTIQd4IsmRl/x7IV859oIa64tEIMwDYUbRVlkVbNpm2nU6YCS8J 5MqY7rfda3Sj2m0/qsJUYwuKThn7SNmPWPm9i+249YlKup4x66KN0flWd3NDCTxZGFHR PBo7ddjTCrVeo1XsH0QgXHcvCvdWidzhD5aMvEnAtum4QBhaFYafp/WH65xdj5d84Ua4 AiltPEAb5j+0lO1xMxUIwcnVX5XfbSgaXYYDYf3rRQRvW0doNY9DzqmqNb6rLOgKaT++ geyg== X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPAFIYiWGf2zgcobPIBqgfGYC2JEkMYkfd2P+BxVmVTEi5bVHqrG PyjRbMlkKURuN9ICDqVAA0X5yQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x225DzA4h86WJVGMfhzLD3fZyphNuanaodwL26R7OS/Z8y6EJ+BueAMkEoX9tuNG6U1RgRxOXow== X-Received: by 10.176.82.79 with SMTP id j15mr2082627uaa.99.1518212249794; Fri, 09 Feb 2018 13:37:29 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 10.31.178.134 with SMTP id b128ls4323645vkf.7.gmail; Fri, 09 Feb 2018 13:37:28 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.31.54.205 with SMTP id d196mr370484vka.14.1518212248205; Fri, 09 Feb 2018 13:37:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: jmckesson@gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: std-proposals@isocpp.org X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:36854 Archived-At: ------=_Part_3215_1142360921.1518212247677 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3216_740970474.1518212247678" ------=_Part_3216_740970474.1518212247678 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Friday, February 9, 2018 at 1:55:48 PM UTC-5, Hyman Rosen wrote: > > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 1:38 PM, Ren Industries > wrote: >> >> It's a pretty big mystery to me why anyone would want something built on >> iostreams in 2018. >> Honestly, since when is making one of the worst parts of the language >> MORE vital a nice thing? >> > > What's wrong with iostreams? Is it that virtual functions aren't good > enough for optimizationists? > > From more recent C++ standardization, we have > { std::vector v{3}; } // v.size() == 1 > { std::vector v{3}; } // v.size() == 3 > { std::vector v{0}; } // v.size() == 1 > { std::vector v{0}; } // undefined behavior > > That does not inspire the greatest confidence that new designs emerging > from the > standardization process are going to be any better than what we already > have. > I'm not going to defend some of the uniform initialization decisions. But unless you can come up with a better process, the one we have is *the one we have*. iostream's deficiencies are well-known, and suggesting that we can't do better by bringing up one instance of the committee's failure is a terrible reason not to try to do better. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/aba6679c-4e85-4ae0-b03b-e3f4031e352d%40isocpp.org. ------=_Part_3216_740970474.1518212247678 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Friday, February 9, 2018 at 1:55:48 PM UTC-5, Hyman Ros= en wrote:
On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 1:38 PM, Ren Industries = <renind...@gmail.com> wrote:
It'= s a pretty big mystery to me why anyone would want something built on iostr= eams in 2018.=C2=A0
Honestly, since when is making one of the wor= st parts of the language MORE vital a nice thing?

What's wrong with iostreams?=C2=A0 Is it that virtu= al functions aren't good enough for optimizationists?

From more = recent C++=C2=A0 standardization, we have
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 { std::vector<int>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0v{3}; } // v.size() =3D=3D 1
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 { std::vector<std::stri= ng> v{3}; } // v.size() =3D=3D 3
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 { std::vector<int>= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0v{0}; } // v.size() =3D=3D 1
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 { std::vector<std::string> v{0}; } // undefined behavio= r

That does not inspire the greatest confidence that new desi= gns emerging from the
standardization process are going to be any better= than what we already have.

I'm not going to defend some of the uniform initialization decisio= ns. But unless you can come up with a better process, the one we have is the one we have. iostream's deficiencies are well-known, and sugge= sting that we can't do better by bringing up one instance of the commit= tee's failure is a terrible reason not to try to do better.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposa= ls+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.= com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/aba6679c-4e85-4ae0-b03b-e3f4031e352d= %40isocpp.org.
------=_Part_3216_740970474.1518212247678-- ------=_Part_3215_1142360921.1518212247677-- .