220 36821 article Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Richard Hodges Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: String interpolation Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 09:05:44 +0100 Lines: 138 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: References: <356d5835-f1bf-4699-94f5-0b2d3d0b9c0e@isocpp.org> <1731062.NdW3nXAon1@tjmaciei-mobl1> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113fb94ed913420564c2fea0" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1518163448 29475 195.159.176.226 (9 Feb 2018 08:04:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 08:04:08 +0000 (UTC) To: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBD4PBM7UWAHRBWVM6XJQKGQETHUS7WA@isocpp.org Fri Feb 09 09:04:04 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-io0-f198.google.com ([209.85.223.198]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ek3eo-00062e-4V for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; 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[209.85.220.41]) by mx.google.com with SMTPS id m12sor1060976iod.113.2018.02.09.00.05.46 for (Google Transport Security); Fri, 09 Feb 2018 00:05:46 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of hodges.r@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.41 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.41; X-Received: by 10.107.135.224 with SMTP id r93mr1921576ioi.248.1518163545623; Fri, 09 Feb 2018 00:05:45 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.2.164.138 with HTTP; Fri, 9 Feb 2018 00:05:44 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.2.164.138 with HTTP; Fri, 9 Feb 2018 00:05:44 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <1731062.NdW3nXAon1@tjmaciei-mobl1> X-Original-Sender: hodges.r@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=tj+GnNvJ; spf=pass (google.com: domain of hodges.r@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.41 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=hodges.r@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: std-proposals@isocpp.org X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:36821 Archived-At: --001a113fb94ed913420564c2fea0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" It's a great idea. Naysayers talk of performance concerns as a result of virtual functions. These are irrelevant. Firstly, the cost of turning numeric values into strings far outweighs the cost of a virtual call Second, fixing iostream to make it more efficient is a separate concern. The general idea is a great one, and very welcome. I have recently taught iostream formatting to a new developer. His reaction was incredulity that it was so hard and unintuitive. Particularly the formatting of UDTs. It is a travesty that in 2018, c++ remains impenetrable to beginners. It drives people into the waiting arms of awful non-languages like java, c# and swift. On 9 Feb 2018 6:18 am, "Thiago Macieira" wrote: On Thursday, 8 February 2018 17:41:16 PST Jake Arkinstall wrote: > T recipient; > // operator<<(std::ostream&, T) defined, or we naturally get an undefined > operator<< error later on Considering iostreams are somewhat slow, because of all the virtuals and multiple inheritance, how can I make your proposal work with something other than it? Explain how it would work with an arbitrary other class. -- Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) macieira.info - thiago (AT) kde.org Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/ isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/1731062.NdW3nXAon1%40tjmaciei-mobl1. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/CALvx3haDVWHLQ4MJfEjeFWoh%3DJduvANZ%2BG61M9_x8H9%2BbU-xpA%40mail.gmail.com. --001a113fb94ed913420564c2fea0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It's a great idea. Naysayers talk of performance= concerns as a result of virtual functions. These are irrelevant.

Firstly, the cost of turning nume= ric values into strings far outweighs the cost of a virtual call=C2=A0

Second, fixing iostream to m= ake it more efficient is a separate concern.=C2=A0
<= br>
The general idea is a great one, and very welcom= e.=C2=A0

I have recently= taught iostream formatting to a new developer. His reaction was incredulit= y that it was so hard and unintuitive. Particularly the formatting of UDTs.= =C2=A0

It is a travesty that in 2018, c++ remains impenetrab= le to beginners. It drives people into the waiting arms of awful non-langua= ges like java, c# and swift.=C2=A0



<= div class=3D"gmail_extra" dir=3D"auto">
On 9 = Feb 2018 6:18 am, "Thiago Macieira" <thiago@macieira.org> wrote:
On Thursday, 8 February 2= 018 17:41:16 PST Jake Arkinstall wrote:
> T recipient;
> // operator<<(std::ostream&, T) defined, or we naturally get= an undefined
> operator<< error later on

Considering iostreams are somewhat slow, because of all the virtuals = and
multiple inheritance, how can I make your proposal work with something othe= r
than it?

Explain how it would work with an arbitrary other class.

--
Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) macieira.info - thiago (AT) kde.org
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center



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