220 36551 article Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Ville Voutilainen Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: Re: What happened to N4282 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 02:17:04 +0200 Lines: 42 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: References: Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1515370513 17349 195.159.176.226 (8 Jan 2018 00:15:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 00:15:13 +0000 (UTC) To: "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBC5JHI7A7ALRBAXRZLJAKGQETPY67AY@isocpp.org Mon Jan 08 01:15:09 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-ot0-f200.google.com ([74.125.82.200]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eYL5j-0003p2-F5 for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2018 01:15:03 +0100 Original-Received: by mail-ot0-f200.google.com with SMTP id t27sf5493825otf.10 for ; 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[209.85.220.41]) by mx.google.com with SMTPS id b191sor3619835oih.250.2018.01.07.16.17.05 for (Google Transport Security); Sun, 07 Jan 2018 16:17:05 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of ville.voutilainen@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.41 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.41; X-Received: by 10.202.104.69 with SMTP id d66mr5373068oic.200.1515370625342; Sun, 07 Jan 2018 16:17:05 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.157.43.248 with HTTP; Sun, 7 Jan 2018 16:17:04 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: ville.voutilainen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=Hq11ew19; spf=pass (google.com: domain of ville.voutilainen@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.41 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ville.voutilainen@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: std-proposals@isocpp.org X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:36551 Archived-At: On 8 January 2018 at 00:17, Bo Persson wrote: >> On the other side, when using std::observer_ptr, you know: >> - that the given pointer isn't owned and that you should not try to take >> any ownership on it. >> - the code is not that poorly written :) >> > > The trend for the C++ Core Guidelines seems to be that a raw pointer is > non-owning (and non-array). > > http://isocpp.github.io/CppCoreGuidelines/CppCoreGuidelines#Rr-ptr > > And then use the compilers' static analysis to warn about doing "owning > things" to the pointers. > > I think the observer_ptr, while a good idea in isolation, has lost to the > more comprehensive guidelines. Lost based on what? All those guidelines provide is yet another question to ask. The current questions are 1) wtf is that pointer pointing to? 2) who owns it? Core Guidelines add 3) does the author of this code use Core Guidelines or not? 4) are the Guidelines used everywhere, consistently? While observer_ptr doesn't help with (1), it provides 2) certainly not you, so none of your concern 3) doesn't matter 4) doesn't matter observer_ptr is a tool in the toolbox. There are other tools. Those other tools aren't necessarily better just because the Core Guidelines authors decided that raw pointers are non-owning. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. 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