220 36533 article Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Masse Nicolas Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: What happened to N4282 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 09:07:45 -0800 (PST) Lines: 112 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: References: Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_11728_855844777.1515344865180" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1515344752 20735 195.159.176.226 (7 Jan 2018 17:05:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 17:05:52 +0000 (UTC) Cc: bobfang1992@gmail.com To: ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBCCJBHV4UALBBYVHZHJAKGQE3IKQMRQ@isocpp.org Sun Jan 07 18:05:47 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-vk0-f72.google.com ([209.85.213.72]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eYEOG-0004pu-1i for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Sun, 07 Jan 2018 18:05:44 +0100 Original-Received: by mail-vk0-f72.google.com with SMTP id u143sf5801709vkb.0 for ; Sun, 07 Jan 2018 09:07:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=isocpp-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; bh=7gRcM8lMUHY2uK9OC4yeJtK7nYTCMg1JvaadzGFuw7M=; b=Fr33oF34Jb+HQg/v0/1Kx0X7+zz7YyPaUWzesQDISyBXeA0yseDsrjzO2RcSMoc6ea SYTUFBwXVXrqdWSXpdnDVSEUJkMDDXU2HN9W5frtMksqwKZaqNNbNtP3T1B0qn/gj6+i Rm7/Z0OCVyyYcS0PdmHdCsuYDKrx+xFqw+60SeGKqgHOJTqXDr/zBJhYYm57tyimSDAj z3ajYhhAdnp70BycAzfo/seqAqAX5h4pv4w+SU8azPcjird/iozOQ9mYasKQ0bS0MDvF D9Q0bUuZuv7IVvTNI7y7oyuxTKNVYim3evUhsKOAGU4h2pZoksgycHlwj8+PJa0Hec12 v9BA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; bh=7gRcM8lMUHY2uK9OC4yeJtK7nYTCMg1JvaadzGFuw7M=; b=IAbdEb3Kiii6KnZFlEw74IOq2ZP8NC1GpIrpN0Se2IKEjE0+QR5CUz3pAoLAdvXaxJ QoT2pcKLNyDxLfTxnV2fvBFsHB3By+uiAH6OKBGcRPdq6BYToJ9zTQILInN3z5hVkzAN 3ZXUKVmWx8cVQTkSnd/Y9DZTGSwsPG75ChUuMgsbmuZUGXuCYrff32R0OovwMt6gchau Bd9ljZN/8HCsxgHxEz14IqZ0r9d00o1RzFphL2REvB4EEz2WEe7CQRyWsau3IVZGaq4f RJKCS2EnwIU26KrrJkb9s3qF6l5a9efGZEQHgmL7BoqS5SCnQQi3uFb/weTZF8k/cHcG B27w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to :references:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=7gRcM8lMUHY2uK9OC4yeJtK7nYTCMg1JvaadzGFuw7M=; b=YBg7ciNBvl3xKaIi1UWmtfPa4SLFQnBxxPsBZeNva0/jq0Hkvfn6yjqWKtPiTYSnep vv1KO9MIYZ6nkzb2HYKqeMYgKSHD2mRBUeTO+OCW6B4Q7YFiZQxr7CLNYGUjtqUKP3k7 /kEfEFWIDtf57UutXjhGI9g42UhIZkm8924WAFg9W1U/N3hyOogsJz8eHOEAr0MuJXBO ZJ/3yRaB+H8zbHzlNeRerHrRi8qyPbIhoJSvrg508QYqgbB39gseQsRw1nj6Nnbu9vzl XftnyZ9hhUmlBLpLplzkCTQ8Y6ftTVASt0YlDTuwQJl2jxadl1OSZDdDziJQtQoKW8L5 u1kA== X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxytf/2FN3NXxakE848qNTTDdNHd5a/zTanKbmdATUQiXHep6CHwfY CA/JwjUSV3jzuTtXPrCg8hyIVg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBou+QzEHg3vFgeOxzDS+K6rItRqCWDc5jx8AYGAUQp3WgnVhY4Pei/np+jkIYeYc3RWi1goFJQ== X-Received: by 10.176.32.14 with SMTP id v14mr4623819uak.18.1515344867280; Sun, 07 Jan 2018 09:07:47 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 10.176.71.30 with SMTP id h30ls2379930uac.7.gmail; Sun, 07 Jan 2018 09:07:45 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.31.10.199 with SMTP id 190mr969324vkk.3.1515344865691; Sun, 07 Jan 2018 09:07:45 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: Masse.Nicolas@gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: std-proposals@isocpp.org X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:36533 Archived-At: ------=_Part_11728_855844777.1515344865180 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_11729_305440276.1515344865181" ------=_Part_11729_305440276.1515344865181 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, Le dimanche 10 d=C3=A9cembre 2017 23:07:54 UTC+1, Nicol Bolas a =C3=A9crit = : > > > Basically, naked pointers are treated like a hypothetical `optional`.= =20 > If you want an owning pointer, you use a smart pointer or, if you cannot= =20 > properly encapsulate the ownership, `gsl::owner`. If you want a=20 > non-owning array, you use `gsl::span`. > > People are going to use `T*` for non-owning pointers; there's no getting= =20 > around that. We already have one way to spell that; we don't need a secon= d=20 > one. > I should say I just don't agree with you. When people use naked pointer, we can't know wether it is: - for storing a non-owned pointer - due to compatibility with C code - poorly written code - whathever Also it goes against a rule I've set with myself who said that naked=20 pointer should always be avoided :D. On the other side, when using std::observer_ptr, you know: - that the given pointer isn't owned and that you should not try to take=20 any ownership on it. - the code is not that poorly written :) So I see a real interest in this and hope it will be integrated into the=20 standard. (In fact I've already written my own class for this, but I would be happy= =20 if one day I can replace it with something provided by the stl). Just my 2 cents, Nicolas. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp= ..org/d/msgid/std-proposals/c82b2d47-e144-4809-b87a-f70d00d8a7e7%40isocpp.or= g. ------=_Part_11729_305440276.1515344865181 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,

Le dimanche 10 d=C3=A9cembre 2017 23:07:54 = UTC+1, Nicol Bolas a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:

Basically, naked pointers are treated lik= e a hypothetical `optional<T&>`. If you want an owning pointer, y= ou use a smart pointer or, if you cannot properly encapsulate the ownership= , `gsl::owner<T>`. If you want a non-owning array, you use `gsl::span= <T>`.

People are going to use `T*` for non-o= wning pointers; there's no getting around that. We already have one way= to spell that; we don't need a second one.

I should say I just don't agree with you.
When people use naked pointer, we can't know wether it is:
= - for storing a non-owned pointer
- due to compatibility with C c= ode
- poorly written code
- whathever
Also it goes against a rule I've set with myself who said t= hat naked pointer should always be avoided :D.

On = the other side, when using std::observer_ptr<T>, you know:
= - that the given pointer isn't owned and that you should not try to tak= e any ownership on it.
- the code is not that poorly written :)
So I see a real interest in this and hope it will be integrat= ed into the standard.
(In fact I've already written my ow= n class for this, but I would be happy if one day I can replace it with som= ething provided by the stl).

Just my 2 cents,
<= /div>
Nicolas.


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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposa= ls+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.= com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/c82b2d47-e144-4809-b87a-f70d00d8a7e7= %40isocpp.org.
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