220 36108 <91476861-cb55-4d43-949f-30c44223099d@isocpp.org> article Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Osman Zakir Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: Question about Networking, Ranges, Modules and Concepts Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 03:24:57 -0800 (PST) Lines: 177 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: <91476861-cb55-4d43-949f-30c44223099d@isocpp.org> References: <6ee1380d-1bf3-4f23-b455-642ec30e20ff@isocpp.org> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_2203_2048912691.1513769097861" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1513768983 6839 195.159.176.226 (20 Dec 2017 11:23:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 11:23:03 +0000 (UTC) To: ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBDVOVV663IOBBCUR5HIQKGQEQ562V4Y@isocpp.org Wed Dec 20 12:22:59 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-vk0-f72.google.com ([209.85.213.72]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eRcSg-0001Mh-21 for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 12:22:58 +0100 Original-Received: by mail-vk0-f72.google.com with SMTP id x184sf10629569vkc.2 for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 03:25:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=isocpp-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=1V7QdF8mBqpJ1DlvI9Y0PLSNDCXhmapyVOx2/dgBS0A=; b=xmZqjRtuMm3TLc/Pf9uW95fPeGjg6I++mRUpO3iJJ8hvA5lcLw5wzXGMwbcKhHwpBl io7yIqgZUNryh1D3TNt/Cnstg95Utfu2fignrjbCVVHoUMeRcbv48NOm8n6bJ+9rBsmG VprYQMBasOBj7Qv6i6DZyUrx0KCiYfiM3OeINFUka/h4fsCqDDCf/Tl5D5F/aizYOe3i eIwOE9JrD5gxFZPbSPZ8G6tWxz6x/HRFsQlXekz5aFYaO3ZO3CK2F0CCARih3BpUuCzQ VRN5R4IxYXU5/oNFXZgzY2VFrCh7VgKzoih0pJMfAkoTt6QE+gQ0j600BZtTPMJSiQ3p x8EQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=1V7QdF8mBqpJ1DlvI9Y0PLSNDCXhmapyVOx2/dgBS0A=; b=VeTuO8AkXPA7SQVkglgBVEt7PHVDSn0404X+TVZHMnNFZoWfgs1XOqQivJmuNL/tEV /4iankSmetFo+GTQwawBgwxm6Sm19/AHLbeATdV76AgiGm+JILfJQqZvGWGjazAsFNwC 8a7C+u50cUsSclHDSTWrm67ZbF8ZRBuvKFo9xjKSjxDkkp9iskQyaS3AUNC27gJW+Jmu 0Jb+DQEuUi7N2vQ6sCuqekwjHERZL8BgpXC0MgfrYNgNDtUfB+sZCnguUJkaigl0OIQp HTdIujPve6aSFcvOx/c8tKZq0cF5QNM9diGE1e3gXM3LY0mq++FtKkokjJasV1iwl4JD X0bA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references :subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence :mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help :list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=1V7QdF8mBqpJ1DlvI9Y0PLSNDCXhmapyVOx2/dgBS0A=; b=jNIStMB3llTzL1RAKUo0HJdB04hWoaAwlw20Zw7Kr8wu+7dsYHWaU1lvjR8uz3njgG ZBlUZeQ6ZS2u+SaGqhTvwtX5ollyotYSnkuqyDTMI1CiTeNWmj3waZeGEyfe31v127se 2HZHTR0shIywq2MX3D+241bSO+A+nFxT3u6Y1gjH6hCTQ/fWezuevkKttHkqkPKOMjRJ K1iYZLdMgWcmnG8Ria2PDUSpmV6waoPis8vW861E8r114Tnc7oerlTZHpfwZW3C2LeO5 SdnTMlZC83o7ibCPZNrfW7uxHXVwJhMsRIW8UnzgumalbsFtskHmC/OJuwuo4mCY3zrx FZeA== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mL3QMeXXKWaljKKZgR6FcwYsfOnJzXYRCezaZLWXTt2gYyxL40R 8UWdNKbQ0KAB9t0Drl28ke4OPw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBosoEZjXFXS11N3lpNX5VizuMpqdrNju8Bmijd5Qrz2YGHaADEbgwroH/61iGLGkJALhbkOUSA== X-Received: by 10.159.37.167 with SMTP id 36mr3038025uaf.97.1513769100094; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 03:25:00 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 10.176.29.7 with SMTP id j7ls5970349uak.15.gmail; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 03:24:58 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.31.178.196 with SMTP id b187mr633856vkf.8.1513769098532; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 03:24:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <6ee1380d-1bf3-4f23-b455-642ec30e20ff@isocpp.org> X-Original-Sender: osmanzakir9@gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: std-proposals@isocpp.org X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:36108 Archived-At: ------=_Part_2203_2048912691.1513769097861 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2204_183931981.1513769097862" ------=_Part_2204_183931981.1513769097862 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 1:04:32 PM UTC+5, Alberto Barbati wrote: > > > Il giorno luned=C3=AC 18 dicembre 2017 14:22:06 UTC+1, Osman Zakir ha scr= itto: >> >> I originally wanted to asking about Coroutines as well, but then I read= =20 >> that thread titled "coroutines have odd interaction with std algorithms"= =20 >> and decided against it since it seems like there are obviously some=20 >> problems with the Coroutines TS right now - hopefully we'll get one of t= he=20 >> better versions Nicol talked about when it's all said and done. >> > > I believe you are overstating the "obvious problems" with the Coroutine= =20 > TS. The TS has been approved and published. I don't know if and when it= =20 > will be merged in the standard, Ville didn't mention it and surely he is= =20 > more knowledgeable than me about that. However, I find it hard to believe= =20 > that all that work will be thrown away to follow another competing=20 > proposal. A more probable scenario is to have some incremental changes t= o=20 > the TS to allow stackful coroutines in some form, either before or after= =20 > merging. Just my opinion. > > Disclaimer: I like the Coroutine TS as it is and would be more than happy= =20 > to have it in the standard soon. > Yeah, it'll be merged alright, but according to what I read, some people=20 are dissatisfied with the TS itself. Hopefully the problems will be fixed.= =20 =20 We'll hopefully get a HTTP web server and client added to the standard at= =20 some point, but I'm also worried about C++ not having a way to get all=20 third-party open source libraries to C++ programmers easily. I'm thinking= =20 of a solution, one that all C++ compiler vendors will have to work on. =20 It's to have all compilers shipped with a collection of third-party=20 libraries and make it so that including them in a project is as easy as it= =20 is with the standard library. And hopefully we can get it to a point where= =20 no extra linking step is needed. Instant inclusion so that the programmer= =20 can just start coding instantly without any effort on his/her part. Might= =20 seem a bit ambitious, but I think this has to be done if we are to have the= =20 C++ community involved with the updates to the language in a more involved= =20 way and make it so that any useful library the library authors write will= =20 be immediately available to all programmers. That would be the unified=20 library distribution kit, if we can get work started on it. As for the build system. IMO, those same compiler vendors could=20 collaborate and create a single compiler toolchain that the aforementioned= =20 collection of third-party libraries will be shipped with. It should be a= =20 compiler that's 100% standards conformant (yes, really - we need that) and= =20 should also produce compiler warning and error messages that are easy to=20 understand even for complete beginners. =20 Now, thankfully, some people on the committee also have their own=20 compilers. The chair himself is in Microsoft, for example. Get him=20 onboard with this somehow. And we also need to mention this somewhere=20 where it'll reach other compiler vendors as well. =20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp= ..org/d/msgid/std-proposals/91476861-cb55-4d43-949f-30c44223099d%40isocpp.or= g. ------=_Part_2204_183931981.1513769097862 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 1:04:32 PM UTC+5, Alberto= Barbati wrote:

Il giorno luned=C3=AC 18 dicembre 2017 14:22:06 UTC+1, Osman Zakir ha= scritto:
I originally wa= nted to asking about Coroutines as well, but then I read that thread titled= "coroutines have odd interaction with std algorithms" and decide= d against it since it seems like there are obviously some problems with the= Coroutines TS right now - hopefully we'll get one of the better versio= ns Nicol talked about when it's all said and done.

I believe you are overstating the "obvi= ous problems" with the Coroutine TS. The TS has been approved and publ= ished. I don't know if and when it will be merged in the standard, Vill= e didn't mention it and surely he is more knowledgeable than me about t= hat. However, I find it hard to believe that all that work will be thrown a= way to follow another competing proposal. A more=C2=A0 probable scenario is= to have some incremental changes to the TS to allow stackful coroutines in= some form, either before or after merging. Just my opinion.
=
Disclaimer: I like the Coroutine TS as it is and would be mo= re than happy to have it in the standard soon.
=

Yeah, it'll be merged alright, but according to wha= t I read, some people are dissatisfied with the TS itself.=C2=A0 Hopefully = the problems will be fixed. =C2=A0

We'll hopef= ully get a HTTP web server and client added to the standard at some point, = but I'm also worried about C++ not having a way to get all third-party = open source libraries to C++ programmers easily.=C2=A0 I'm thinking of = a solution, one that all C++ compiler vendors will have to work on.=C2=A0 I= t's to have all compilers shipped with a collection of third-party libr= aries and make it so that including them in a project is as easy as it is w= ith the standard library.=C2=A0 And hopefully we can get it to a point wher= e no extra linking step is needed.=C2=A0 Instant inclusion so that the prog= rammer can just start coding instantly without any effort on his/her part.= =C2=A0 Might seem a bit ambitious, but I think this has to be done if we ar= e to have the C++ community involved with the updates to the language in a = more involved way and make it so that any useful library the library author= s write will be immediately available to all programmers. =C2=A0 That would= be the unified library distribution kit, if we can get work started on it.=

As for the build system.=C2=A0 IMO, those same co= mpiler vendors could collaborate and create a single compiler toolchain tha= t the aforementioned collection of third-party libraries will be shipped wi= th.=C2=A0 It should be a compiler that's 100% standards conformant (yes= , really - we need that) and should also produce compiler warning and error= messages that are easy to understand even for complete beginners. =C2=A0

Now, thankfully, some people on the committee also = have their own compilers.=C2=A0 The chair himself is in Microsoft, for exam= ple.=C2=A0 Get him onboard with this somehow.=C2=A0 And we also need to men= tion this somewhere where it'll reach other compiler vendors as well. = =C2=A0

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposa= ls+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.= com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/91476861-cb55-4d43-949f-30c44223099d= %40isocpp.org.
------=_Part_2204_183931981.1513769097862-- ------=_Part_2203_2048912691.1513769097861-- .