220 33628 article Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Arthur O'Dwyer" Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: Re: Deterministic C++ memory manager Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2017 12:29:53 -0700 Lines: 103 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: References: <68af3311-d2d7-42ff-8cfd-f8bcdc20bf0c@isocpp.org> <4398822.Pm5k2y7gIr@tjmaciei-mobl1> <4729d236-c2ae-409a-a023-102e6c8bb0d5@isocpp.org> <1702971.pEYQYCCQ6l@tjmaciei-mobl1> <7adbfe8e-13f9-42d9-8916-e89456fc9d7f@isocpp.org> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c05f3e634c9d305561ac16a" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1502047796 348 195.159.176.226 (6 Aug 2017 19:29:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2017 19:29:56 +0000 (UTC) To: "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBDLZJYWNDQILHXE5ZQCRUBGFJ3A42@isocpp.org Sun Aug 06 21:29:51 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-wr0-f200.google.com ([209.85.128.200]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1deRFG-0008Bn-6i for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Sun, 06 Aug 2017 21:29:50 +0200 Original-Received: by mail-wr0-f200.google.com with SMTP id p43sf12249678wrb.6 for ; Sun, 06 Aug 2017 12:29:56 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1502047796; cv=pass; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=SOGdn92rFjGKvPJ1eK2c+XF2y8Mn2z5IwlU6rf582GYyLfL1HrwjfgN5DTtmHAgJKv EI/f712CMpPa05x4+IUvcaNJHlqE0/xTfizzanKIQ69iz7w21oH0/21pktRA9/2NdvXZ 4TZ55xBCdE/tcEbKJ7nRvM1SqlEqSU9suWd8pyZY3DPjszbVGaNispLJBLrgYtCCLUW/ bmP32g0Uvtvk8V3ZKoHa1fMlak/6ncbHoSsDPDJLkPyvnKa2Sv/ORbUPNP3kvBa4ZObk Gluqr98FzWGbGNwVYP0gEfBykv1IzY3XNt2BQWtGkR1uC28f+lZxRo/hezwaknnZvq6W zbUw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:reply-to:to:subject:message-id:date :from:references:in-reply-to:mime-version:arc-authentication-results :arc-message-signature:dkim-signature:arc-authentication-results; bh=a1l5e2XJJeVJNazMhrCIaKvYi1TxjR7vc5a4k+zQQPw=; b=j89uUe/U6LEVwvc5ds2n93FtUn7saL4weCEyLQLuSZjcDohsdxLODGgIRcOgBTlxWJ eWDI3GMWPq1ogbb55AOJpJBoTIviUKwVdNiqO6l/gZ8N+5NskVj5sa2QI9S85m47t68J hJZD0U/+/y8A3utaZfdyk3btRRFRKHF9GjJ8bapNNBE9nZ/+Kf2Pu5mt/uOraEoiOPrj 7SfNW5ycxQWAh77sbZhzsUK/KsjFvGJoUb/IErFsQrGQaw5QzL+Cz2qdXsLaCScxBfDx NSTabW+Q6WiKaCotebJ0XDVPDxhce9R9uU8/M2Q7u1EkNl43vMMrGSzP5EYo3aihPfI3 Qa8w== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.b=NIPbbscx; spf=pass (google.com: domain of arthur.j.odwyer@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c09::232 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=arthur.j.odwyer@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=isocpp-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=a1l5e2XJJeVJNazMhrCIaKvYi1TxjR7vc5a4k+zQQPw=; b=fA4sxVtE54jc/s3XCHQETei7zF5J5zA4n3zuGPaWCw+GVT69QCxtyWFQdl8et2TUKH d2/8lPJoDwaN7Uaa0eQkVOApLMMz2l/uFx/yXALNg7MGh2uI9OgLX0B9fdJlTz7eMASz RXw7lqRtdo3uOOOttQUPHR3487uCbFy/iYdoJvpXkz9+igrK/r1e5rkyjGlc4yBEUTyv 3NIIkUXvYHVWrqKBxNkuwhLMA7uBdSlOx117OakqQgl2AyuTNfWMFICnLeTtlqKiiLgg 7Qmwfcdad2hXFYWo0E8OHYa4fwNSrpga6aJVWC9sjYECywFMuJn0tJpjxHORYEonmn8C Esqg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=a1l5e2XJJeVJNazMhrCIaKvYi1TxjR7vc5a4k+zQQPw=; b=r80eRnXg1WYwpT883s93YrOJPQ3tWJ12Cmlt4auRNRjLXE2m1jUPwzpWVwGhB8SR59 xcSSoW4bjZzR95z0G/O2CBwQjHNBLmgGH/jKnGjLorHHMZP6TT1q1AErPrPneew2onGJ cuHx/+MQDZ6FvRzNiL2cC70lInwHIkKeuZHXSazKMoQ6gwmaRLIaoV6C/2yvHwjlDjVH 22ab2dG4W6WZt3PEFVnh7BhD7QG815GxjHtOuyVGOYfL0jgCTwHNSxIzBHAEoyiGF49j ElvscvRhWJ9Eei7X/f/DPZEwK+dZ5MyaoDSbx53V6mTJlTM5Vc/ZVwmjCMDzgcYMiB4p JeZw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5gD0XQmrflR3zAeyaRDXXDnqowzW5rQsj0JtdDNwwk4JoZhzTc0 nZfxHFDRcIj326LD X-Received: by 10.28.35.214 with SMTP id j205mr848251wmj.17.1502047796331; Sun, 06 Aug 2017 12:29:56 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 10.28.45.81 with SMTP id t78ls1057713wmt.7.canary-gmail; Sun, 06 Aug 2017 12:29:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.80.135.153 with SMTP id a25mr9072625eda.90.1502047794930; Sun, 06 Aug 2017 12:29:54 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1502047794; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=wh9i//sYLd+jag3eDqHc/RrMB2CPoccEqq8U0aTOfZzwU/+DgQZaQDiDdyzEmH2x51 IebfpwND2/uCMlOudX7RbLU2mp8ouVvksV7Xvubq4xPhQlf0Uo85YzQsgbSxPpa6CNML X4vQQNKIzLmVGqRAoDKhorxse+bgspYmTd6t19dcoDAj9NWgq118jqBwwyNMPaJpQ5w/ wgh6WlGOS13SYAYFGXB7CAuSsQgKZ6jaiXcV/MPra4+vIKUltbgiY3lWrqYL6lWD4nw9 WhNnBA8+DkXM5PLpzf35GDo7M2tsPc8cjaPRQ/uCMMxnUg48F2M5xZ7ot7Eag2PubclJ ewIw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:references:in-reply-to:mime-version :dkim-signature:arc-authentication-results; bh=HSqh6MjKuwRk86Nt9i75jZwEmtq+IwQ8oUcZL2zcRtI=; b=s80qQ47OWHN1Kjb1EdAcXP0SXxLNN5LSO6h+dLL7HwEMOI3T5zGLRb2QIZHkIgn3h5 GI7U9n2NKfH+z0DsKlcIHV8h9yy3gd08zG3HxnMwOmptp5xiliH3xNCESkbQvT0Yn6fH K2PgSlEKTCCK8Xzb6e9eI9oliX/NB30gnPUQ7mRquVQnCrtz9Ui7U7CSW0gxjeNp0pRb RR9W32HSW3CUlTFwwCmHz6ya0RobH+Ouq4s4ZoBD++Et1gKnkX+ffelG3OnG5ICX4sE9 N+m31P9h6iadKRsFvbzlOslVZqS/7gelczAEU4N9nhjEvSviA03WuCFCZnbm5VqrLrCE nhjA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.b=NIPbbscx; spf=pass (google.com: domain of arthur.j.odwyer@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c09::232 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=arthur.j.odwyer@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Original-Received: from mail-wm0-x232.google.com (mail-wm0-x232.google.com. [2a00:1450:400c:c09::232]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m5si7837616edl.259.2017.08.06.12.29.54 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 06 Aug 2017 12:29:54 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of arthur.j.odwyer@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c09::232 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c09::232; Original-Received: by mail-wm0-x232.google.com with SMTP id t201so53856149wmt.1 for ; Sun, 06 Aug 2017 12:29:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.80.129.227 with SMTP id 90mr9082532ede.256.1502047794152; Sun, 06 Aug 2017 12:29:54 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.80.180.229 with HTTP; Sun, 6 Aug 2017 12:29:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: arthur.j.odwyer@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.b=NIPbbscx; spf=pass (google.com: domain of arthur.j.odwyer@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c09::232 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=arthur.j.odwyer@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:33628 Archived-At: --94eb2c05f3e634c9d305561ac16a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Micha=C5=82 Dominiak = wrote: > I don't agree with the idea of patents for the software industry (and in = a > lesser extend, in other industries too) either, but regardless of that - OP > seems to think that getting a thing into the standard will get him immortal > fame, and getting others to implement a similar thing (which already > happened, in multiple settings, from what I undestand) will be the worst > thing ever. Yeah; whereas in real life, generally you *want* several different implementations of an idea, and you *want* it to be used in production by a lot of people, before you feel safe calling it a "standard". > Also, @Phil: in what way do you think a standard library component "doesn't > need support"? if you think it doesn't you should talk to the implementers. I believe that was just a humorous remark: he's saying his goal is to write bug-free, clear, documented, usable code, and then nobody will need to ask for support. That's my goal too. ;) But your rebuttal is still accurate: in practice, every piece of code either dies without any support contracts, or lives long enough to see itself become the villain. :) I think =E2=80=94 I *hope!* =E2=80=94 Phil wasn't suggesting that "if Boost= adopts this library then I don't need to maintain it anymore." He was just saying (I hope) that "if I write really good code, then maintaining it will be easy." (Note that I said "if Boost", not "if ISO", because "adopting libraries" is not really ISO WG21's business. ISO is in charge of *specifications*, not implementations. I think Phil has some misapprehension on that point also.) =E2=80=93Arthur --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp= ..org/d/msgid/std-proposals/CADvuK0JfFJe5eveYpGypWQQcE9sodYDsGai-4nXy0q6g0Tb= 1ew%40mail.gmail.com. --94eb2c05f3e634c9d305561ac16a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Micha=C5=82 Dominiak <= griwes@griwes.info> wrote:
= > I don't agree with the idea of patents for the software industry (= and in a
> lesser extend, in other industries too) either, but regard= less of that - OP
> seems to think that getting a thing into the stan= dard will get him immortal
> fame, and getting others to implement a = similar thing (which already
> happened, in multiple settings, from w= hat I undestand) will be the worst
> thing ever.

Y= eah; whereas in real life, generally you want several different impl= ementations of an idea, and you want it to be used in production by = a lot of people, before you feel safe calling it a "standard".

> Also, @Phil: in what way do you think a standard library c= omponent "doesn't
> need support"? if you think it does= n't you should talk to the implementers.

I believe th= at was just a humorous remark: he's saying his goal is to write bug-fre= e, clear, documented, usable code, and then nobody will need to ask for sup= port. That's my goal too. ;) =C2=A0But your rebuttal is still accurate:= in practice, every piece of code either dies without any support contracts= , or lives long enough to see itself become the villain. :)

<= /div>
I think =E2=80=94 I hope! =E2=80=94 Phil wasn't sugges= ting that "if Boost adopts this library then I don't need to maint= ain it anymore." He was just saying (I hope) that "if I write rea= lly good code, then maintaining it will be easy."

=
(Note that I said "if Boost", not "if ISO", becaus= e "adopting libraries" is not really ISO WG21's business. ISO= is in charge of specifications, not implementations. I think Phil h= as some misapprehension on that point also.)

=E2= =80=93Arthur

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposa= ls+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
To view this discussion on the web visit htt= ps://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/CADvuK0JfFJe5eveY= pGypWQQcE9sodYDsGai-4nXy0q6g0Tb1ew%40mail.gmail.com.
--94eb2c05f3e634c9d305561ac16a-- .