220 33627 article Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?Q?Micha=C5=82_Dominiak?= Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: Re: Deterministic C++ memory manager Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2017 19:17:23 +0000 Lines: 127 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: References: <68af3311-d2d7-42ff-8cfd-f8bcdc20bf0c@isocpp.org> <4398822.Pm5k2y7gIr@tjmaciei-mobl1> <4729d236-c2ae-409a-a023-102e6c8bb0d5@isocpp.org> <1702971.pEYQYCCQ6l@tjmaciei-mobl1> <7adbfe8e-13f9-42d9-8916-e89456fc9d7f@isocpp.org> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f4030436076217620905561a9595" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1502047055 19996 195.159.176.226 (6 Aug 2017 19:17:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2017 19:17:35 +0000 (UTC) To: "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBCA6D5ULVYBRBTWWTXGAKGQEAREYQFA@isocpp.org Sun Aug 06 21:17:30 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-pg0-f71.google.com ([74.125.83.71]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1deR3K-0004xv-Dd for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; 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[2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22a]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b61si4236691plb.250.2017.08.06.12.17.34 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 06 Aug 2017 12:17:34 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22a is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of admin@griwes.info) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22a; Original-Received: by mail-pf0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id c28so24994371pfe.3 for ; Sun, 06 Aug 2017 12:17:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.84.237.8 with SMTP id s8mr11056306plk.163.1502047054023; Sun, 06 Aug 2017 12:17:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7adbfe8e-13f9-42d9-8916-e89456fc9d7f@isocpp.org> X-Original-Sender: griwes@griwes.info X-Original-Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@griwes-info.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.b=nsMIsitK; spf=neutral (google.com: 2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22a is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of admin@griwes.info) smtp.mailfrom=admin@griwes.info Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:33627 Archived-At: --f4030436076217620905561a9595 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I don't agree with the idea of patents for the software industry (and in a lesser extend, in other industries too) either, but regardless of that - OP seems to think that getting a thing into the standard will get him immortal fame, and getting others to implement a similar thing (which already happened, in multiple settings, from what I undestand) will be the worst thing ever. Also, *@Phil:* in what way do you think a standard library component "doesn't need support"? if you think it doesn't you should talk to the implementers. On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 9:10 PM Nicol Bolas wrote: > On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 1:30:04 PM UTC-4, Phil Bouchard wrote: >> >> And a patent, I think, takes years to get which is a little bit >> counterproductive in the software industry. >> > > Some might argue that patents themselves are "counterproductive in the > software industry", but that is neither here nor there. This discussion > does raises an interesting question, however. > > The C++ standard specifies behavior, not implementation. As such, what > goes into the standard is not something that is patentable (I think?). > However, implementation techniques could be patentable, and behavior is > often informed by implementation techniques. As such, if the best (or only) > technique for implementing a feature is encumbered by patents, and we know > that even before standardizing it, is that something we *want* to > standardize? > > I certainly don't like the idea of C++ implementations being required to > pay money or otherwise license something from a 3rd party just so that they > can implement the standard with reasonable quality. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. > To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/7adbfe8e-13f9-42d9-8916-e89456fc9d7f%40isocpp.org > > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/CAPCFJdQaKCyG9M0QwBpQO%3D6zkx0-4Tbe87%2BGtePTiMui1oxbEQ%40mail.gmail.com. --f4030436076217620905561a9595 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I don't agree with the idea of patents for the softwar= e industry (and in a lesser extend, in other industries too) either, but re= gardless of that - OP seems to think that getting a thing into the standard= will get him immortal fame, and getting others to implement a similar thin= g (which already happened, in multiple settings, from what I undestand) wil= l be the worst thing ever.

Also, @Phil:=C2=A0in w= hat way do you think a standard library component "doesn't need su= pport"? if you think it doesn't you should talk to the implementer= s.

On Sun, A= ug 6, 2017 at 9:10 PM Nicol Bolas <jmckesson@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 1:30:04 PM UTC-4, Phil Bouc= hard wrote:
And a p= atent, I think, takes years to get which is a little bit counterproductive = in the software industry.

Some might argue that patents themselves are "counterproductive i= n the software industry", but that is neither here nor there. This dis= cussion does raises an interesting question, however.

The C++ standa= rd=20 specifies behavior, not implementation. As such, what goes into the standar= d is not something that is patentable (I think?). However, implementation t= echniques could be patentable, and behavior is often informed by implementa= tion techniques. As such, if the best (or only) technique for implementing = a feature is encumbered by patents, and we know that even before standardiz= ing it, is that=20 something we want to standardize?

I certainly don't like = the idea of C++ implementations being required to pay money or otherwise li= cense something from a 3rd party just so that they can implement the standa= rd with reasonable quality.

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