220 33006 <80081c1a-9f0e-4e62-876d-448b18c11dba@isocpp.org> article Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: clar.nels@gmail.com Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?=5Bstd=2Dproposals=5D_Re=3A_About_p0697r0_=E2=80=94_how_SD=2D6_uncle?= =?UTF-8?Q?ar_status_proved_harmful_to_me?= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 16:18:44 -0700 (PDT) Lines: 95 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: <80081c1a-9f0e-4e62-876d-448b18c11dba@isocpp.org> References: <75ec58fe-f4c5-4ec5-b893-c9feeb77fed2@isocpp.org> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_2115_1472048848.1498691924174" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1498691929 20663 195.159.176.226 (28 Jun 2017 23:18:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 23:18:49 +0000 (UTC) To: ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBCCIDKMEWIARBVHS2DFAKGQEQ6AGBRQ@isocpp.org Thu Jun 29 01:18:45 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-it0-f70.google.com ([209.85.214.70]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dQMEL-0004wO-1G for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 01:18:41 +0200 Original-Received: by mail-it0-f70.google.com with SMTP id o202sf38513924itc.14 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 16:18:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=isocpp-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=J1el51jTNgUS4r2ZMzJc1nAltcCex6xwT/qgPylSvcE=; b=WdW56ID13jzbvrpQTl6HZnzMQaBoSOLhiGKjZQpNBGVp3Xq5nS/47C32LwVTSsItw9 PJ1AFKdAu45Ne1VFDvt7o2VTckzeT61vcbWZ9FiQh6Bl1ygrmPRfa5E+tds+qs8RAY6O oWbmApkM6TKV2Xr8bV5P2PwvGNUef/gE2ub/TgZYOK92+b55VF7fibzy9IVuN+qkqh/h A0iBNYryqYf/PlusdgM0xGDB5nIsvcZYEwZPIce/Gou+d8WdMfWcV9DUDgboJ5GIEFca DDDCd2hwW3wSNTofFYB1oSX9ywi8YSg5qERt2Cy/GjcbR+OJXj28CGTA0gFvSjE0Sv+P VtPg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=J1el51jTNgUS4r2ZMzJc1nAltcCex6xwT/qgPylSvcE=; b=mH82HIKBz02Adk/1Nnmm+xMlNXvuhS+gKKtF+6gdhShkM9i5S3TdC76j3+a3wgWDdD Tu9GuxDr/vJW4f/I7OT+DDuckAkjNtEPtDKUujnrwPmxYH0+fUYibqsm7UO6P/gIKv89 BUjvpaOdSNaqa7H//K5sBozrk5QCTcEN6q9/62qfTSDiu0XnDrJVPtvNRt5yvd+wepkT vK9V64Tdu86+1xsy56ne3EvxNF39L4R9bSSjGivqGarMMNuTpGQf2rCZkPM4CYnbNt7m HCMJmtLV7RypbTBJuGuyaaKzNp7L7AUvtN0xys4X8YBpRVHndqH1lQieguN5fcXQcMC2 H0ZQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references :subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence :mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help :list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=J1el51jTNgUS4r2ZMzJc1nAltcCex6xwT/qgPylSvcE=; b=UKKcHUhjta80883PU8QrAwylmPDJZUpwYT2FNyzbDAeOtdL+VM/6QKh68O7jyBbQZJ Apoz5uDvmQAqIOqUgj4b1YaSeNAbXEyVHBOLPaOureWD953gPFJLfOEyjDUShr9AJ/5t CF9+nQAp8rYYQlsGdb4ThvI2uLkd1ffVH8fT5WPXp9iegZHD6tVZIwrsEMVT0j9y4NFP 6p2pLN7uyKffDYoqXEGJ5R9i43y3JCW//bglvpbUUJSUJBTrsNhVPos/OkwTUVN3ITsy tteDM91jTuqkPVFyFtVwasyWrZaYSe4tGNYQDQiZdrjyqPRFakbl0Tf3juIQgiOQXj5/ dEVw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOw4lftfxmW7JcY72q4xE1rIjs65Kt6zekMD7CCH+md4iXpti6NC K45uMn68oJAJlZvg X-Received: by 10.107.6.141 with SMTP id f13mr7352606ioi.27.1498691926011; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 16:18:46 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 10.36.0.208 with SMTP id 199ls3413806ita.6.gmail; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 16:18:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.36.26.134 with SMTP id 128mr114667iti.3.1498691924675; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 16:18:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <75ec58fe-f4c5-4ec5-b893-c9feeb77fed2@isocpp.org> X-Original-Sender: clar.nels@gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:33006 Archived-At: ------=_Part_2115_1472048848.1498691924174 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2116_1409950292.1498691924174" ------=_Part_2116_1409950292.1498691924174 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" From my perspective, what actually proved harmful to the original poster was not that the status of SD-6 was unclear, but just that Microsoft hasn't implemented it. (Of course Microsoft may claim that they haven't implemented it because its status is unclear, but to me that feels more like an excuse than a rationale; confusion hasn't stopped several other implementers.) And I'd like to say something else about the SD-6 recommendations: strictly speaking, they don't need to be implemented within the compiler, and therefore necessarily by the compiler vendor. Nothing is stopping Microsoft, or even someone else, from implementing a separate header that defines the appropriate macros. Such a header could be preincluded by a command-line option, to satisfy the "predefined" requirements of SD-6. Of course such an implementation would likely be just an approximation. It may well have a difficult time in cases where a feature is enabled or disabled by a command-line option. There may also be cases where an independent implementer would come up with a different answer than Microsoft would. But even if Microsoft were never to implement the SD-6 recommendations in their compiler, the recommendations could still be an improvement over the status quo on which they are trying to improve -- if someone were sufficiently motivated to make up for Microsoft's lack of initiative. -- Clark Nelson Chair, PL22.16 (ANSI C++ standard committee) Intel Corporation Chair, SG10 (C++ SG for feature-testing) clark.nelson@intel.com Chair, CPLEX (C SG for parallel language extensions) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/80081c1a-9f0e-4e62-876d-448b18c11dba%40isocpp.org. ------=_Part_2116_1409950292.1498691924174 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
From my perspective, what actually proved harmful to = the original poster was not that the status of SD-6 was unclear, but just t= hat Microsoft hasn't implemented it. (Of course Microsoft may claim tha= t they haven't implemented it because its status is unclear, but to me = that feels more like an excuse than a rationale; confusion hasn't stopp= ed several other implementers.)

And I'd like t= o say something else about the SD-6 recommendations: strictly speaking, the= y don't need to be implemented within the compiler, and therefore neces= sarily by the compiler vendor.

Nothing is stopping= Microsoft, or even someone else, from implementing a separate header that = defines the appropriate macros. Such a header could be preincluded by a com= mand-line option, to satisfy the "predefined" requirements of SD-= 6.

Of course such an implementation would likely b= e just an approximation. It may well have a difficult time in cases where a= feature is enabled or disabled by a command-line option. There may also be= cases where an independent implementer would come up with a different answ= er than Microsoft would.

But even if Microsoft wer= e never to implement the SD-6 recommendations in their compiler, the recomm= endations could still be an improvement over the status quo on which they a= re trying to improve -- if someone were sufficiently motivated to make up f= or Microsoft's lack of initiative.

--
Clark Nelson =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Chair, PL22.16 (ANS= I C++ standard committee)
Intel Corporation =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = Chair, SG10 (C++ SG for feature-testing)
clark.nelson@intel.com = =C2=A0Chair, CPLEX (C SG for parallel language extensions)

--
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposa= ls+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
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To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.= com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/80081c1a-9f0e-4e62-876d-448b18c11dba= %40isocpp.org.
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