220 32719 article Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Nicol Bolas Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: Why do we include a Matrix and Vector class into the proposed 2D Graphics Library? Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 09:58:13 -0700 (PDT) Lines: 90 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: References: <7e3ee19d-f758-4d38-a015-0c474424073d@isocpp.org> <20170609115017.5132345.91153.30981@gmail.com> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_1927_2091321540.1497113893514" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1497113894 18804 195.159.176.226 (10 Jun 2017 16:58:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 16:58:14 +0000 (UTC) To: ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBCEKFTV6ZUMBBJWK6DEQKGQEYF2DPOY@isocpp.org Sat Jun 10 18:58:10 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-yb0-f200.google.com ([209.85.213.200]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJjiE-0004g3-26 for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 18:58:10 +0200 Original-Received: by mail-yb0-f200.google.com with SMTP id u106sf25891742ybi.4 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 09:58:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=isocpp-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=1j+za196gKrWDaniaNkiI+oKD+BseiehZE/mtjWDxMU=; b=M7Y7MLXmGpRdFz6gIh0cWeB6TXUc0AM8KRXBXFziFFqaBc6fJ6HkXRolLpxUxWp2U/ pafmORtblwram+leIPHQrCWWWAI5lUIOjH+A3Gkl004f1S+HDkzyQDW7H8yhLeOcNw6y B4Y3AwCvK47d11UvKT3hHcYFkBSwSKwcNxxRiT5/KKpxjuaZV/hzQBRnHGxNtvBZb4ZL DZaA4kWvjndM5aKP/0OYrR6ymdKisMyZG0W/4M9ZeOmG9fD0MagzvuLFhCJhVcFOQ1Xu k1OjjwxN+uOqvLJZPmY4emtLclfXqggkzORIT9A02NohN3pj4/zamcwxCPy7Ufnh64xz iAnQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=1j+za196gKrWDaniaNkiI+oKD+BseiehZE/mtjWDxMU=; b=eg3PA/SdpuCmIMdYzYaq9qPuOu6TBRE1UkbHofpOeXbbh+UVgSYcE178rhxJaWVOkH pM4QXpKN5H3Gz9TMws4Z9OVYhFgtrMN0Q/7ZnC/dWt82ZkrvIXRWtlB7i6WwxBPCPt1w 8qEtCeo6ZYBeXrx+45oGBgR8cPS1KrQNr15bIS6oLuInMPbf3Cr3y8dsbzOb57eIyk6c okcB+GFRcIarI45O2MMM1rZ4WEUbYgQ4RYK8ThL+TONIkFyPrKJojchdCbrnuRH/A7Td 51zBde1oixJbkzeiDXW2d+CgX2uKgf7ax45n1NDFfaYhOll/rcoro7qQZzPmfQlTUmNk 47CQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references :subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence :mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help :list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=1j+za196gKrWDaniaNkiI+oKD+BseiehZE/mtjWDxMU=; b=UpPOqYkrasIEGVCQscDWlYT2iPRNSuvCz7i5nZjr2gCKwAN8aX8Yl17tLWzcebPS75 A0c5i9QNolF42I30kXz/zR1VeeXELtt1AZGRlmOjrg+EBj3ISe37WTt7JUK0JyDF6tnZ IQffa+9/DU5SHFj5UXwGP/V9rD5hb+Iyy6TnaYXaI/raWUCm0hRCQSrODeC/6H6G1rCW iC8jO0qeRSY3qvOCd0ap5SaisBt9l4Wsz1CTXS5aFICHNKJBdt53Wovyy52xyJXbhVF5 n3TCVdptLuBI2b5UtjGZJecP5wkOVsyDVoxyEZoYdhpRxUuk92KGDhrxmrIKk6hKm6vp 8NaQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcD+kjhUkiTQ1bEbTjkFM8p/C4Kj++otrjK9RBgLEnGB7caOvprW ZY5D0+qB2l1T8GKC X-Received: by 10.13.211.196 with SMTP id v187mr6432333ywd.96.1497113894996; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 09:58:14 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 10.157.5.5 with SMTP id 5ls11279394otw.11.gmail; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 09:58:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.157.21.65 with SMTP id z1mr1119473otz.8.1497113893968; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 09:58:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: jmckesson@gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:32719 Archived-At: ------=_Part_1927_2091321540.1497113893514 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1928_1094216784.1497113893514" ------=_Part_1928_1094216784.1497113893514 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 12:02:46 PM UTC-4, Bengt Gustafsson wrote: > > @Jakob: I had the same feeling when reading this proposal: These types > should not be part of a graphics library, but instances of a general > vocabulary matrix type. There are a couple of requirements to bring back > from the 2D graphics proposal: > > - A vector/matrix type must be possible to instantiate with fixed size. > - A 2 element vector should have members named x and y. > The problem with all this is that, from the perspective of the graphics library, generalizing these things is essentially irrelevant and pointless. Sure, it makes those types more useful for other things, but it doesn't make them more useful for the graphics library. Having to get a full-fledged vector/matrix library through the committee is a lot harder than just saying, "here's a few types that exist for a narrow purpose". You'd essentially be delaying the standardization of the graphics library for things that have nothing to do with graphics. Now granted, I don't think the graphics library should be standardized *at all*, but if it's going to happen, I'd rather not see it delayed due to issues that are tangential to that library's needs. The only generic issues I think need to be accounted for is the ability to transform these types into `span`s (and therefore defining them explicitly to contain arrays). But that's contingent on standardizing `span` itself. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/d7d0213d-9706-49ac-b322-6013fabefd3a%40isocpp.org. ------=_Part_1928_1094216784.1497113893514 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 12:02:46 PM UTC-4, Bengt Gus= tafsson wrote:
@Jakob: I had the same feeling when reading this proposal: These types sho= uld not be part of a graphics library, but instances of a general vocabular= y matrix type. There are a couple of requirements to bring back from the 2D= graphics proposal:

- A vector/matrix type must be possi= ble to instantiate with fixed size.
- A 2 element vector should h= ave members named x and y.

The problem wit= h all this is that, from the perspective of the graphics library, generaliz= ing these things is essentially irrelevant and pointless. Sure, it makes th= ose types more useful for other things, but it doesn't make them more u= seful for the graphics library.

Having to get a full-fledged vector/= matrix library through the committee is a lot harder than just saying, &quo= t;here's a few types that exist for a narrow purpose". You'd e= ssentially be delaying the standardization of the graphics library for thin= gs that have nothing to do with graphics.

Now granted, I don't t= hink the graphics library should be standardized at all, but if it&#= 39;s going to happen, I'd rather not see it delayed due to issues that = are tangential to that library's needs.

The only generic issues = I think need to be accounted for is the ability to transform these types in= to `span`s (and therefore defining them explicitly to contain arrays). But = that's contingent on standardizing `span` itself.

--
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