220 32569 <d14bfe0d-8c72-49a0-bf08-8041998dd125@isocpp.org> article
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From: ma.kalbfuss@web.de
Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals
Subject: Re: relaxing rules for ternary operator. Allow
 incompatible types.
Date: Sun, 21 May 2017 23:33:32 -0700 (PDT)
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Sure, you don't have always exponential growth when using templates. But if 
you simulating this case with template functions you end up having the same 
problem.
So I wouldn't say, that this something completely new. It is the nature of 
the problem we try to solve. You have either runtime overhad or exponential 
growth.
Maybe there is a way to avoid exponential growth using optimization 
techniques. Assumably in many cases the optimizer will reduce the amount of 
code anyway.
There could be a guaranteed optimization. But I'm not sure which. I will 
build up an example, where the code isn't completely optimized away.

I assume variant is an untagged union? Let's try to minimise our examples.


Am Montag, 22. Mai 2017 02:12:20 UTC+2 schrieb Thiago Macieira:
>
> On domingo, 21 de maio de 2017 13:54:51 PDT ma.ka...@web.de <javascript:> 
> wrote: 
> > Yeah, i realize that. This is something you have to consider if you're 
> > using templates extensively. 
>
> No, it isn't. Today, the use of templates does not imply exponential 
> growth of 
> generated code. 
>
> That is something completely new with your proposal. 
>
> > This is not the right solution for everything. 
> > I think in most cases, you use one or at most two ternary operators in 
> one 
> > place. For three or more ternary operators the runtime overhead is 
> > assumably the lesser of two evils. But even if it grows exponentially, 
> the 
> > constants are pretty small. Normaly only a few instructions are 
> involved. 
>
> Not necessarily. Remember that you may not reevaluate the condition, so 
> either 
> this generates completely separate code paths (and thus the exponential 
> expansion) or the result of the evaluation is stored in a hidden variable 
> that 
> is evaluated every time you access that automatic variable. 
>
> That is, when you write: 
>
>         auto x = runtime_condition1 ? A{} : B{}; 
>         auto y = runtime_conditoin2 ? C{} : D{}; 
>         x.f(); 
>
> This expands to either: 
>
>         if (runtime_condition1) { 
>                 auto x = A{}; 
>                 if (runtime_condition2) { 
>                         auto y = C {}; 
>                         x.f() + y.f(); 
>                 } else { 
>                         auto y = D {}; 
>                         x.f() + y.f(); 
>                 } 
>         } else { 
>                 auto x = B{}; 
>                 if (runtime_condition2) { 
>                         auto y = C {}; 
>                         x.f() + y.f(); 
>                 } else { 
>                         auto y = D {}; 
>                         x.f() + y.f(); 
>                 } 
>         } 
>
> or to: 
>
>         variant<A, B> x; 
>         variant<C, D> y; 
>         bool hidden1 = runtime_condition1; 
>         if (hidden1) 
>                 x.create<A>(); 
>         else 
>                 x.create<B>(); 
>         bool hidden2 = runtime_condition2; 
>         if (hidden2) 
>                 y.create<C>(); 
>         else 
>                 y.create<D>(); 
>         if (hidden1) { 
>                 if (hidden2) 
>                         x.as<A>().f() + y.as<C>().f(); 
>                 else 
>                         x.as<A>().f() + y.as<D>().f(); 
>         } else { 
>                 if (hidden2) 
>                         x.as<B>().f() + y.as<C>().f(); 
>                 else 
>                         x.as<B>().f() + y.as<D>().f(); 
>         } 
>
> -- 
> Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) macieira.info - thiago (AT) kde.org 
>    Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center 
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Sure, you don&#39;t have always exponential growth when us=
ing templates. But if you simulating this case with template functions you =
end up having the same problem.<br>So I wouldn&#39;t say, that this somethi=
ng completely new. It is the nature of the problem we try to solve. You hav=
e either runtime overhad or exponential growth.<br>Maybe there is a way to =
avoid exponential growth using optimization techniques. Assumably in many c=
ases the optimizer will reduce the amount of code anyway.<br>There could be=
 a guaranteed optimization. But I&#39;m not sure which. I will build up an =
example, where the code isn&#39;t completely optimized away.<br><br>I assum=
e variant is an untagged union? Let&#39;s try to minimise our examples.<br>=
<br><br>Am Montag, 22. Mai 2017 02:12:20 UTC+2 schrieb Thiago Macieira:<blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-=
left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">On domingo, 21 de maio de 2017 13:=
54:51 PDT <a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=
=3D"u-14zLSRAwAJ" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;javascri=
pt:&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;javascript:&#39;;return =
true;">ma.ka...@web.de</a> wrote:
<br>&gt; Yeah, i realize that. This is something you have to consider if yo=
u&#39;re
<br>&gt; using templates extensively.=20
<br>
<br>No, it isn&#39;t. Today, the use of templates does not imply exponentia=
l growth of=20
<br>generated code.
<br>
<br>That is something completely new with your proposal.
<br>
<br>&gt; This is not the right solution for everything.
<br>&gt; I think in most cases, you use one or at most two ternary operator=
s in one
<br>&gt; place. For three or more ternary operators the runtime overhead is
<br>&gt; assumably the lesser of two evils. But even if it grows exponentia=
lly, the
<br>&gt; constants are pretty small. Normaly only a few instructions are in=
volved.
<br>
<br>Not necessarily. Remember that you may not reevaluate the condition, so=
 either=20
<br>this generates completely separate code paths (and thus the exponential=
=20
<br>expansion) or the result of the evaluation is stored in a hidden variab=
le that=20
<br>is evaluated every time you access that automatic variable.=20
<br>
<br>That is, when you write:
<br>
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0auto x =3D runtime_cond=
ition1 ? A{} : B{};=20
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0auto y =3D runtime_cond=
itoin2 ? C{} : D{};
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0x.f();
<br>
<br>This expands to either:
<br>
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0if (runtime_condition1)=
 {
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0auto x =3D A{};
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0if (runtime_condition2) {
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
auto y =3D C {};
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
x.f() + y.f();
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0} else {
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
auto y =3D D {};
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
x.f() + y.f();
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0}
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0} else {
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0auto x =3D B{};
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0if (runtime_condition2) {
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
auto y =3D C {};
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
x.f() + y.f();
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0} else {
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
auto y =3D D {};
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
x.f() + y.f();
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0}
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0}
<br>
<br>or to:
<br>
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0variant&lt;A, B&gt; x;
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0variant&lt;C, D&gt; y;
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0bool hidden1 =3D runtim=
e_condition1;
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0if (hidden1)
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0x.create&lt;A&gt;();
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0else
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0x.create&lt;B&gt;();
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0bool hidden2 =3D runtim=
e_condition2;
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0if (hidden2)
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0y.create&lt;C&gt;();
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0else
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0y.create&lt;D&gt;();
<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0if (hidden1) {
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<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
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<a href=3D"http://x.as" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"t=
his.href=3D&#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fx.as\x26sa\x3dD=
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..google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fy.as\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAF=
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<a href=3D"http://x.as" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"t=
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<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
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<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
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<a href=3D"http://x.as" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"t=
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<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0}
<br>
<br>--=20
<br>Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) <a href=3D"http://macieira.info" target=
=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;http://www.goo=
gle.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fmacieira.info\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\=
x3dAFQjCNEswDUBNCNanbu7euhqLn_62FW8ag&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.hr=
ef=3D&#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fmacieira.info\x26sa\x=
3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNEswDUBNCNanbu7euhqLn_62FW8ag&#39;;return t=
rue;">macieira.info</a> - thiago (AT) <a href=3D"http://kde.org" target=3D"=
_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;http://www.google.=
com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fkde.org\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNH=
GRJdo5_JYG1DowztwAHAKs80XSA&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;=
http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fkde.org\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1=
\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHGRJdo5_JYG1DowztwAHAKs80XSA&#39;;return true;">kde.org</a=
>
<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center
<br>
<br></blockquote></div>

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