220 29319 article Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "D. B." Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: Re: std::byte thoughts Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2016 21:23:47 +0000 Lines: 70 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: References: <7da80620-e4bd-40eb-a4ec-4f3c2dcb2c98@isocpp.org> <004be1ec-6455-4844-b704-7961ea745773@isocpp.org> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11477a5eab2490054043f01d X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1478035460 1036 195.159.176.226 (1 Nov 2016 21:24:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2016 21:24:20 +0000 (UTC) To: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBCWNZ4ECS4GBBZMP4TAAKGQEPWWPN4I@isocpp.org Tue Nov 01 22:24:15 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-wm0-f69.google.com ([74.125.82.69]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c1gX4-0005DE-Je for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Nov 2016 22:23:46 +0100 Original-Received: by mail-wm0-f69.google.com with SMTP id u144sf22135691wmu.1 for ; Tue, 01 Nov 2016 14:23:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=isocpp-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=4aDG3kJ0xDdf0IAhgjW6Hix5gqe3wrpXjSAD+KwtP+0=; b=foJRfknp80AJ9RSrEp0wxOY6FwLYG8H14elb/TZ8zRzrEI+5fgciZJAlO7EQy5mJW3 xSR0DFccRn6SlKS3ZElYsWXLcqF50G1EzYdXteqFFElQxSGkq4MdIcvW0V7ilidzIflG CIU5sI1pHV2FKIAUEslnp3NAfuRckKLDl9nWpqyab+sFzPFFXPu1HQ2PeZKli/NdRGz7 QhkDiavIXCbeKT2Ccefq/uTrUsxwxzJ0ISJISGqUxWLrL7ePJB6t8GCUFbpzC7w47uuf NBsnqezI7nIfDO88Xehz3DjXaJGwPBLAnH1J5CtiLqwvBau19sCX5NklwPnHIQd5N/eX alzw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=4aDG3kJ0xDdf0IAhgjW6Hix5gqe3wrpXjSAD+KwtP+0=; b=FZ7Dlst4tHXSpaDbkpzY5l5YvIoG1drh8oaLH0RiFz8uGAfx9kBPgxaZLJpgYGbHy8 Ycf/g9Pb8QmgAs1tP9LXvQBpvBC0hp2QyF5m0tLujoU3V/GhhZmnu3IGdhF5fDV7Zm96 rsro0ClNF8PXToF/BCyg7tqo8kyW0nTc4jtDdd9dmUMnjrtUk4raDiShA+wzN6pTRf5M PL+o2as4J+b4xLTZWvu4ReWfrBEqvNtSSToDmltFR/StaZ5CrkKRdZ8+vVzhsaC6AF6r xvoyOgHp63vO69a8HkcfJOXigOztGg4iP/blM6vqcp/EXyPDlX4IVVuPXCHlp7MnkhL2 pOBw== X-Gm-Message-State: ABUngvcc2SaZ0afmSCiANvGLk9/4IzGAitEiBf6bd5iEoemY/0/IOtkoBNFHagXthR1qyg== X-Received: by 10.194.113.106 with SMTP id ix10mr6456wjb.7.1478035429567; Tue, 01 Nov 2016 14:23:49 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 10.28.29.19 with SMTP id d19ls51880wmd.4.gmail; Tue, 01 Nov 2016 14:23:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.28.9.141 with SMTP id 135mr585990wmj.68.1478035428672; Tue, 01 Nov 2016 14:23:48 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from mail-wm0-x22a.google.com (mail-wm0-x22a.google.com. [2a00:1450:400c:c09::22a]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f84si5820932wmi.127.2016.11.01.14.23.48 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 01 Nov 2016 14:23:48 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of db0451@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c09::22a as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c09::22a; Original-Received: by mail-wm0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id t79so131631280wmt.0 for ; Tue, 01 Nov 2016 14:23:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.28.234.68 with SMTP id i65mr612413wmh.4.1478035428286; Tue, 01 Nov 2016 14:23:48 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.28.236.24 with HTTP; Tue, 1 Nov 2016 14:23:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: db0451@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of db0451@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c09::22a as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=db0451@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:29319 Archived-At: --001a11477a5eab2490054043f01d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 It must always be optional, because C/C++ do not like to set (even 99% coverage) rules for how an implementation must represent numbers. But anyway, the proposal linked explicitly states that "std::byte is not an integer and not a character". std::uint8_t is always the former, and on I bet all of our machines here, it's also a typedef to the latter. So how is it relevant? Mind you, (A) std::byte will ultimately *contain* an integer *unsigned char*, just with some opaque wrapping around it to save the programmer from themselves in some ill-defined way. I don't really see much need for it, but as another tool in the stdlib, sure, the more the merrier. I will say that I think that proposal oversteps its do main when it expects to get allowances for a library wrapper type to participate in the special cases of object lifetime, aliasing, etc. Come on! They need to decide whether they're proposing a piece of convenience or a new fundamental type. I was iffy enough about std::initializer_list straddling the boundaries, and I'm really not sure this justifies another case of that, and on a far flimsier pretext AFAICT. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/CACGiwhFrBEfxNehp8nkGMJ8embK-zkU9KWtKNGTr1xwb-3xW5w%40mail.gmail.com. --001a11477a5eab2490054043f01d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It must always be optional, because C/C++ d= o not like to set (even 99% coverage) rules for how an implementation must = represent numbers.

But anyway, the proposal linked explicitly = states that "std::byte is not an integer and not a character". st= d::uint8_t is always the former, and on I bet all of our machines here, it&= #39;s also a typedef to the latter. So how is it relevant?

Min= d you, (A) std::byte will ultimately contain an integer un= signed char, just with some opaque wrapping around it to save the progr= ammer from themselves in some ill-defined way. I don't really see much = need for it, but as another tool in the stdlib, sure, the more the merrier.=

I will say that I =C2=A0think that proposal oversteps its do = main when it expects to get allowances for a library wrapper type to partic= ipate in the special cases of object lifetime, aliasing, etc. Come on! They= need to decide whether they're proposing a piece of convenience or a n= ew fundamental type. I was iffy enough about std::initializer_list straddli= ng the boundaries, and I'm really not sure this justifies another case = of that, and on a far flimsier pretext AFAICT.

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