220 28728 article Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Matthew Woehlke Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: GUI Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2016 10:18:14 -0400 Lines: 47 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: References: <8e7ef2a9-cc07-41bf-b802-6e7ea795f880@isocpp.org> <45d02760-81b8-4039-b306-75266197b420@isocpp.org> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1476281928 18275 195.159.176.226 (12 Oct 2016 14:18:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2016 14:18:48 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.1.0 To: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBC37LBFWUIFBBQMM7G7QKGQEZQDFKZY@isocpp.org Wed Oct 12 16:18:43 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-lf0-f70.google.com ([209.85.215.70]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1buKMh-0003rH-HE for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 16:18:39 +0200 Original-Received: by mail-lf0-f70.google.com with SMTP id i187sf28343004lfe.4 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 07:18:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=isocpp-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=to:from:subject:date:lines:message-id:references:mime-version :user-agent:in-reply-to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=8MQxVIfMUx8nOQ4OOxBrl/ORaUXzIQWRsV6uBCF74LE=; b=1jzp8fkO4xjhBZTUoXHCCW+pHpCp9fycoo8i3Fnn3nSaEoqFTgPMzKxkXVTTkBdCOn hiKKWtX/kENn3Y5BkAPQkjAJCCvLtAsycYG9d2WWhNghYwaRytXDhCXHxZixfnRpnx9M CEA1LjipLbPa3LWWFGk9C60I7hgZwM7oSJDn3Qacm41aj0WoMJLaDsT8KXymMsLxgbjS N8Iz3jx4ZblH1hPe+gRxezxoXk4UQmxud1F6nbWfcU5rUPWLJ/gJM3LZprxgZxBGZint tMpOfY5RCcI+hzyJqNyrF2hQbVu3kw+B71MYFs2/AJvsy++Q6Bo5uYxRnoDuUEEbv9xL 9KkA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:subject:date:lines:message-id:references :mime-version:user-agent:in-reply-to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=8MQxVIfMUx8nOQ4OOxBrl/ORaUXzIQWRsV6uBCF74LE=; b=QvvN0gDRzb7tSq4pazBTrKcSWeBp+5YcgUQOhGicClCoYP45uwQKBjEM722JiRfS6y QrGcYMVTmr77bl+vjSsR22yqQRSdgamnWCI0G7kB/g0LqCbxteQp17UemsiTR0bfWYso TFDn664GCKyksEemUm5dsbZPSX55nbiwF6z8CbLAqCFxbkgcZmn06/Kq2F0px/E2UIUY MBN3sS+ggFIEfKP44U571GZ5Ap6L/frlDlEqNA2Mg34IPkmqGAozTi3vF4dV2F/P25bW 7zzxGxXfxeHBP1Z+HioDVwIy8PwPY9xS2C1v8M0VxRVU8zuDixfjF4zVP4H0gpExORhK OjVg== X-Gm-Message-State: AA6/9RmYWllJ/N96ErPLfp7RR7ot4W5iis41bKCwLwmQ9Yyl19S38Vo4XASA8+XY5yYqjA== X-Received: by 10.194.189.113 with SMTP id gh17mr160275wjc.6.1476281921681; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 07:18:41 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 10.25.31.139 with SMTP id f133ls411153lff.20.gmail; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 07:18:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.25.168.212 with SMTP id r203mr1611471lfe.85.1476281920498; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 07:18:40 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from blaine.gmane.org ([195.159.176.226]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 207si4890153lfl.6.2016.10.12.07.18.40 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 12 Oct 2016 07:18:40 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 195.159.176.226 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org) client-ip=195.159.176.226; Original-Received: from list by blaine.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1buKMW-0002e1-Cr for std-proposals@isocpp.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 16:18:28 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 40 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: mwoehlke.floss@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 195.159.176.226 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org) smtp.mailfrom=gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; dmarc=fail (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:28728 Archived-At: On 2016-10-12 06:54, Ville Voutilainen wrote: > On 12 October 2016 at 13:50, Victor Dyachenko wrote: >> For C++ we have at least Qt and wxWigets. Why do we need to put them into >> Standard? To have big deprecated parts in the Standard in the future? > > Why would such deprecation be necessary? ....because UI's are constantly evolving? Just look at what we have today compared to 10 or 15 years ago. MFC is dead. Qt has changed *significantly* in that time period. Why would we expect that trend to be any different 10 years from now? It's not just because we're creating better ways to "do GUI", either. The entire notion of what constitutes a GUI, and even how people interact with computers, has changed significantly. For STL this isn't a huge issue because STL is mostly dealing with underlying algorithmic issues, which tend not to change (mathematics isn't a static field, but it's not nearly as volatile as HCI). But I remain concerned by things like the standard graphics library proposal (just look at how much OpenGL has changed in the last 10-15 years), that they will be seen as hopelessly obsolete a few years after adoption, if even that long. >> Why don't we have universal GUI library in C++? Because there is no the only >> way to implement GUI. > > There's not only one way to implement most of the standard library, > which is one reason why it doesn't mandate any particular > implementation, so that's a non-issue. That's a non-sequitor. "Implementation" in this context isn't talking about under the hood, it's talking about the design of the API itself. Existing GUI frameworks have radically different API's and even use paradigms (just look at e.g. how widgets are laid out). How do you pick one to "bless"? Why would you expect any decision made today to still be considered acceptable in 5-10 years? -- Matthew -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/ntlgn4%243tk%241%40blaine.gmane.org. .