220 28292 article Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Nicol Bolas Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: what makes a Concept a Concept? Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2016 14:46:01 -0700 (PDT) Lines: 76 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: References: <1fc1c369-a709-41b0-bcd6-5fc01e814a5a@isocpp.org> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_633_312509556.1474321561840" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1474321572 14113 195.159.176.226 (19 Sep 2016 21:46:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2016 21:46:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: najjarchedy@gmail.com To: ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBCEKFTV6ZUMBBG5ZQG7QKGQEXV6A4DQ@isocpp.org Mon Sep 19 23:46:05 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-qt0-f200.google.com ([209.85.216.200]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bm6O3-0002fZ-7q for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Mon, 19 Sep 2016 23:46:03 +0200 Original-Received: by mail-qt0-f200.google.com with SMTP id 16sf359076169qtn.1 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2016 14:46:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=isocpp-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=D8+Z/+GQ6zxutwyWk7HEpsHKzIsxACCZ9Pr/lRs+UX0=; b=XgCeJBkAbig+VScqrPm7YPt1LjbE9LcTQkDRRLYFZL3idtGD/BjaE0xPeh2owMXMAn YfOf0bLEZGjGV4jdCwOGLIeVU3tJCCsB/SbFPnKDhoOaei9UsSvrYFPsZVjdRiYa/R/m rauh5f4Mhu1I5KnQNA9aVSxYJ8k93SwQpaFx7nSxeN7qd3AnlBWZQzjDhSEvXj203NFc EiCPP2DEIDo+XY0wUxt3xD0pHeja3XBou0F+NPyDJsMdisokcJR16Gh/oP/w4OLoGelH /+Gzz/R1/lbJUxnqKsqkP7/cKFS7nm8wJqWsrJzc+fMBCESNhwboMmCr4z9gwCrUaz/P AAxA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=D8+Z/+GQ6zxutwyWk7HEpsHKzIsxACCZ9Pr/lRs+UX0=; b=l99KQwLFSp00QJoK05vNHqQ9UakPF9qx1ILDJUXJSWcGiXveowl17nevxp2bGtFnu6 K4q7TfFETWWiRfNckHrz+PAJGfbeBK8KBbwCJiyzxr3gDeOxWXmHhIVFb9R5grz+UX2e 9Tf8Ffaf+lcjeHwmhdlPKILKCDIkZhZ0TJRiauPidxa4jP4jdKYSvlwl6ZvXFf4wRvrp 9IUeq2uzCs8Hv6eGdxYpguf8u3nv89vY5s9SwSXnuZDZk6OX1XCsvukWJ3/yu8B6rjsH Xur0/E6l9n2lpq9NsdEyvn3f4Afw9cnscFCSS6JkZoRqkgdviktd6u/DNFnQxmG06gGm 71Tw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to :references:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=D8+Z/+GQ6zxutwyWk7HEpsHKzIsxACCZ9Pr/lRs+UX0=; b=WthDqgbNIin6Qh3HX+0VsktqDYRBajJ/lgTGnVgxogIkRF8CCzw4KYyL9HZeWuKH8j /KJce63671wP4Huhi+xBHcNBFEk9jfAOpZvMH+a7DPY+4uYHJv7GT2bVeQQniXe92BVr 5fuYrcY1pJxGBG2eJ5DGGgEvfwBpK9QGCb8sUYpaHabGaoQ6wNbIg/XODDHhFT7wSRYR Jaz3nIQ4dae5BhJh217uVEeRBzTdv2HiqDbBskTiXAikN9/upglgk0GIiLGQ9d5i7vmC DMP4kxJnfqB5Nsaf6himY80UZxqWU5RnXyykSk4KhJwbc8xrsu/b3GsRzxXnJeV6bjyR mXJQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AE9vXwO2l5BHx+W21arJT5y1WdyQZsljMaCKe7QQlu+3/p1MZajxg8TzpJ5fI+Ztm9OVmg== X-Received: by 10.31.254.15 with SMTP id l15mr376395vki.9.1474321564683; Mon, 19 Sep 2016 14:46:04 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 10.36.3.83 with SMTP id e80ls3080161ite.0.gmail; Mon, 19 Sep 2016 14:46:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.36.111.147 with SMTP id x141mr15800itb.6.1474321562887; Mon, 19 Sep 2016 14:46:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: jmckesson@gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:28292 Archived-At: ------=_Part_633_312509556.1474321561840 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_634_1927302503.1474321561840" ------=_Part_634_1927302503.1474321561840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Monday, September 19, 2016 at 1:15:44 PM UTC-4, najja...@gmail.com wrote: > > > @Nicol Bolas :Okay fair enough: what you are saying is that the language > doesn't offer mechanism to distinguish between *Simple Constraints*{"not > good concept"} and *Concept*(and that's sth obvious from the provided > mechanisms), for the language it's just the same. but, @Nicol Bolas & > Robert Ramey, at the same time when reading papers(design papers) about > Concepts we find Designers talking about the idea of *Syntactic and > Semantic requirments*. > Yes, and if you read the initial papers on Uniform Initialization, it was supposed to cover all forms of initialization, such that you would never need to use () to construct a type again. It didn't work out that way. The same goes here. No plan survives first contact with the enemy. And however much Bjarne wanted concepts-as-a-language-feature to include semantic constraints, it hasn't worked out that way. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/efb963ae-6ff8-442d-a57c-ab67e7156131%40isocpp.org. ------=_Part_634_1927302503.1474321561840 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Monday, September 19, 2016 at 1:15:44 PM UTC-4, najja..= ..@gmail.com wrote:

@Nicol Bolas :Okay fair enough: what you are sayi= ng is that the language doesn't offer mechanism to distinguish between = Simple Constraints{"not good concept"} and Concept(= and that's sth obvious from the provided mechanisms), for the language = it's just the same. but, @Nicol Bolas & Robert Ramey, at the same t= ime when reading papers(design papers) about Concepts we find Designers tal= king about the idea of Syntactic and Semantic requirments.

Yes, and if you read the initial papers = on Uniform Initialization, it was supposed to cover all forms of initializa= tion, such that you would never need to use () to construct a type again.
It didn't work out that way. The same goes here. No plan survives= first contact with the enemy. And however much Bjarne wanted concepts-as-a= -language-feature to include semantic constraints, it hasn't worked out= that way.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposa= ls+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.= com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/efb963ae-6ff8-442d-a57c-ab67e7156131= %40isocpp.org.
------=_Part_634_1927302503.1474321561840-- ------=_Part_633_312509556.1474321561840-- .