220 27023 article Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Patrice Roy Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: Better name for std::launder() ? Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 21:55:29 -0400 Lines: 216 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: References: <1cd5895f-df27-9cda-73cf-cbc2f1488a2c@f2.dion.ne.jp> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1140fb5ecd1f600537a2e96e X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1468547741 2298 80.91.229.3 (15 Jul 2016 01:55:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 01:55:41 +0000 (UTC) To: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBDSZXMHWZIKBBE4FUG6AKGQEW2EC32Y@isocpp.org Fri Jul 15 03:55:35 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-qk0-f198.google.com ([209.85.220.198]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1bNsLk-0003kV-Nu for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Fri, 15 Jul 2016 03:55:33 +0200 Original-Received: by mail-qk0-f198.google.com with SMTP id a123sf197446286qkd.2 for ; Thu, 14 Jul 2016 18:55:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=isocpp-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=R9onpRiLVf263pY//Wf8ujNkzwXNc5tuWrKT6DuJ4js=; b=ls6rSyqzhwl/Z0NyYc9/hdeYZcZVjeHVw6GJ+5FeKPkFc7e8i/NHfypkawh/gFj4t2 aPfoeMw5PW0xGPSrZWmU83zE5/QksJ6eJzrrtDaOxsc1BOz7OA73XZFBwCHECXOQnfNp 5GxyHKAxH0CsydFarz1feBzNuEwEfn18B9+Mnh8WwhQ+QiHNeYf50yMH1b2Cf0wcvWIS ZLheEd7nKGW+Mfl+6Y9MIsl+tA2QnGChrSm9FwzmYGDY2NBqyZgGszg+v2KryxAI9sfO kZbCtIKl1/g9MVz8EGgdkzRUyoMiAIp4b9iJoGUxTQHU9LivTRH13wkJT8EuaMOs/+Fp 8E0Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=R9onpRiLVf263pY//Wf8ujNkzwXNc5tuWrKT6DuJ4js=; b=ZC0Ie8gvVJF0/dhTJD0UKwrcKUC7dUEL3DaXvCYCx2mJj0zIETpEfWJdWlbP87hTxp PkgIUuWC69G+iSqIP/EN73y4JILq5YPW9WQnomyf3B8YNb7unc+CANP281yZkmUBOGR8 XVPhkjor75HtQ+bk0Y3sVmq/7HSuZMRRJDHH/SAwUJ+9X34Pccu5NTFlJZQTuHnPJ3Jb 00Kk/J2H5J4GNomh7Lemaqu84Vd+7vnqorIVv1TrWmjMwBGVNRo1OSYJ0foMee7b3NSL HGSkGBQSxkrPflJfeIoZvCeuafWTyaEOXY2PJqa34CPacI5FSm3UD705WpKi0LzImcYF qmJw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tI7CPAm6his10rOLJgJrHxPPCJ1EJUgVmOQ0kIXwP+dPkipAF9+hH1wKc9osEjI/A== X-Received: by 10.129.39.138 with SMTP id n132mr13753034ywn.42.1468547731780; Thu, 14 Jul 2016 18:55:31 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 10.157.9.221 with SMTP id 29ls2668310otz.6.gmail; Thu, 14 Jul 2016 18:55:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.31.194.13 with SMTP id s13mr7517552vkf.126.1468547730802; Thu, 14 Jul 2016 18:55:30 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from mail-vk0-x22a.google.com (mail-vk0-x22a.google.com. [2607:f8b0:400c:c05::22a]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id u64si1542871uau.212.2016.07.14.18.55.30 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 14 Jul 2016 18:55:30 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of patricer@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c05::22a as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400c:c05::22a; Original-Received: by mail-vk0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id x130so136770287vkc.0 for ; Thu, 14 Jul 2016 18:55:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.31.151.133 with SMTP id z127mr4844443vkd.138.1468547730315; Thu, 14 Jul 2016 18:55:30 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.176.4.53 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Jul 2016 18:55:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: patricer@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of patricer@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c05::22a as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=patricer@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: std-proposals@isocpp.org X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:27023 Archived-At: --001a1140fb5ecd1f600537a2e96e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I, for one, like std::launder() as a name. I also hope very much for it to remain obscure and used by the limited few who know what it's about. The less this one gets out, the better :) 2016-07-14 21:42 GMT-04:00 Kazutoshi Satoda : > On 2016/07/14 3:47 +0900, Richard Smith wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Kazutoshi Satoda < > k_satoda@f2.dion.ne.jp> > > wrote: > ... > >> It could be std::suppose_new_at_reused_storage(), as a strawman. The > >> example at [ptr.launder] would look like this: > >> > >> struct X { const int n; }; > >> X *p =3D new X{3}; > >> const int a =3D p->n; > >> new (p) X{5}; // p does not point to new object (3.8) > >> // because X::n is const > >> const int b =3D p->n; // undefined behavior > >> const int c =3D std::suppose_new_at_reused_storage(p)->n; // OK > >> > >> > >> What do you think? Is it too late? > > > > If you file a national body comment on the CD ballot suggesting renamin= g > > it, along with a proposed new name and rationale, it's not too late for > the > > committee to consider a different name. > > > >> Does someone know the history of the naming? > > > > The current name was originally suggested as -- essentially -- a > > placeholder name, albeit a plausible one, and seems to have broadly bee= n > > considered good enough to not require changing. LEWG review discussed t= he > > name and decided unanimously that they were fine with it as-is. CWG > review > > also discussed the name briefly and did not propose changing it. > > Hearing its history, with no strong rationales, I still think renaming it > is appropriate. I'll try to send a national body comment. > > Thank you and those who suggested other (some funny) alternatives. > > For now, I still think std::suppose_new_at_reused_storage() is the best. > "suppose" stands for possibility of cases when the original object is > still there. "new" stands to indicate lifetime issues by the well known > keyword. "reused storage" stands to indicate the issue is about reusing > the storage manually. And there is no need to shorten the name. > > However, more suggestions are welcome, of course. > > > FYI, I found a related note about the name in a report of Kona meeting > by Jonathan Wakely, which can be an additional motivation to rename it. > > ... After the meeting it was pointed out that some industries might hav= e > > trouble convincing regulators that =E2=80=98launder=E2=80=99 is an appr= opriate > > identifier to have in their code. (A similar objection was raised to th= e > > function corrupted_by_exception ...). ... > http://accu.org/var/uploads/journals/CVu281-78ac.pdf > > -- > k_satoda > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. > To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/c216cbee-fbf= d-ca12-4008-a1fb7d3315e2%40f2.dion.ne.jp > . > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp= ..org/d/msgid/std-proposals/CAKiZDp0SZ_kyeQtTKOxZ6VjcfayL3t7Tm75qesy7pxG752K= xBw%40mail.gmail.com. --001a1140fb5ecd1f600537a2e96e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I, for one, like std::launder() as a name. I also hope ver= y much for it to remain obscure and used by the limited few who know what i= t's about. The less this one gets out, the better :)

2016-07-14 21:42 GMT-04:00= Kazutoshi Satoda <k_satoda@f2.dion.ne.jp>:
On 2016/07/14 3:47 +0900, Richard S= mith wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Kazutoshi Satoda <k_satoda@f2.dion.ne.jp>
> wrote:
...
>> It could be std::suppose_new_at_reused_storage(),= as a strawman. The
>> example at [ptr.launder] would look like this:
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0struct X { const int n; };
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0X *p =3D new X{3};
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0const int a =3D p->n;
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0new (p) X{5}; // p does not point to new object (3.8)<= br> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0// be= cause X::n is const
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0const int b =3D p->n; // undefined behavior
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0const int c =3D std::suppose_new_at_reused_storage(p)-= >n; // OK
>>
>>
>> What do you think? Is it too late?
>
> If you file a national body comment on the CD ballot suggesting renami= ng
> it, along with a proposed new name and rationale, it's not too lat= e for the
> committee to consider a different name.
>
>> Does someone know the history of the naming?
>
> The current name was originally suggested as -- essentially -- a
> placeholder name, albeit a plausible one, and seems to have broadly be= en
> considered good enough to not require changing. LEWG review discussed = the
> name and decided unanimously that they were fine with it as-is. CWG re= view
> also discussed the name briefly and did not propose changing it.

Hearing its history, with no strong rationales, I still think renami= ng it
is appropriate. I'll try to send a national body comment.

Thank you and those who suggested other (some funny) alternatives.

For now, I still think std::suppose_new_at_reused_storage() is the best. "suppose" stands for possibility of cases when the original objec= t is
still there. "new" stands to indicate lifetime issues by the well= known
keyword. "reused storage" stands to indicate the issue is about r= eusing
the storage manually. And there is no need to shorten the name.

However, more suggestions are welcome, of course.


FYI, I found a related note about the name in a report of Kona meeting
by Jonathan Wakely, which can be an additional motivation to rename it.
> ... After the meeting it was pointed out that some industries might ha= ve
> trouble convincing regulators that =E2=80=98launder=E2=80=99 is an app= ropriate
> identifier to have in their code. (A similar objection was raised to t= he
> function corrupted_by_exception ...). ...
http://accu.org/var/uploads/journals/CVu281-78ac= ..pdf

--
k_satoda

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-propo= sals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups= ..google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/c216cbee-fbfd-ca12-4008-a1fb= 7d3315e2%40f2.dion.ne.jp.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposa= ls+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
To view this discussion on the web visit htt= ps://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/CAKiZDp0SZ_kyeQtT= KOxZ6VjcfayL3t7Tm75qesy7pxG752KxBw%40mail.gmail.com.
--001a1140fb5ecd1f600537a2e96e-- .