220 26207 <35a031e6-c62b-4fdc-9206-2c213567e097@isocpp.org> article Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Robert Bielik Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: Any interest to adding audio support to the std library? Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 01:59:49 -0700 (PDT) Lines: 241 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: <35a031e6-c62b-4fdc-9206-2c213567e097@isocpp.org> References: <5751B06A.4080501@mail1.stofanet.dk> <5290948.va25uYNizX@tjmaciei-mobl1> <1580229.cHEgQxCuA1@tjmaciei-mobl1> <62b7649a-5de5-4330-9bac-708375d36e2c@isocpp.org> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_3785_1957277192.1465289989791" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1465289993 8772 80.91.229.3 (7 Jun 2016 08:59:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 08:59:53 +0000 (UTC) Cc: alexander.zywicki@gmail.com To: ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBDRJHJGV3EDBBB423K5AKGQEF73I33I@isocpp.org Tue Jun 07 10:59:53 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-qg0-f72.google.com ([209.85.192.72]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1bACrZ-0006eI-10 for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Tue, 07 Jun 2016 10:59:53 +0200 Original-Received: by mail-qg0-f72.google.com with SMTP id l39sf120750236qgd.2 for ; Tue, 07 Jun 2016 01:59:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=isocpp-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=oxD7aikdN9VJHEnqSTzbCdUOBB5qgPDrtwA8MQeABAc=; b=sqEv/3O2nvQo3Pymuv6Tiz4J+cZSvKHFomwbxk7kfpp4R8FcmULj5vAQHtIIcl7Xkw amzKm1Xv8AWqD84WoxMyVtt3Na2EyAzw7hwp4irAK0mgbpVM+Z1uXgjKTWtI76f3l74L ztvpwdA7PXgKJyAPN6dwIvwWFc1FfqZjKwRnjlKuvDWz+e5vUeMhk9X+WO7i+1TYxhzS 71uZrAUAka3SnJ9s13g8h0iAjDMUdDEcukdN24WPfGt8uvwCdAIckJWHUZzv5amPmupN SWZhfPD611pFiMcTgzhXNW2flvoFhKP0GPOOFS20EzM4kMkaHFuaGRQ9zFSsCyZD+5C9 a3uw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=oxD7aikdN9VJHEnqSTzbCdUOBB5qgPDrtwA8MQeABAc=; b=glIXyvZgNcu6vVjEx1Do95CaY1gbbqY/JsoGs8KzkGJa1uMjS3HfgvlLDdqJ4xcWEq ImMKDbnMud15dbvZ55CYJEgy7gV8yZdKtAhJ1CCExHDaQZ8G62ZOVHEpOz70BfpIreZr 5WbrbetOUYLDiADz9sMARpk3HWzUZ4zJ2DxIyfwDnU0Q9I9mDicAIS17xlhnfwniE0EW lgs9tB4+nNFSMUxjIMe1/SbQG0UQjceWuecqMT1/XyxEGkaKCtBN3pbOlEeHxPS9mnfl c59V50R5uODpzLwyQmQrsaZljrii6Qh9THHeBGR9EVIfqI5hM7wy6/E84XbthH2P18E1 m2gQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to :references:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=oxD7aikdN9VJHEnqSTzbCdUOBB5qgPDrtwA8MQeABAc=; b=K2zVdToPHINFokG47a9FhtMcMqEwMXoLpQZzXTPpiDoJ/gH52EdirzW4IabsFt5FbC AMbDcHDMXv+EH5wUQ/c0ixgYLsoEpF/A/vgj87rvOX8qp5G0RHuuFLqRGs/lw0s8JpQS LTLrFJ9u1niG2hz9qXE73AamuPcVZyUjwwJ11DVEq31fFIkplZtzqrxmr9EKDg6Iybd8 NVrnNIrqPnxlPUwaYlJT3detdVfeNojmuVH7DLWlBZJYK32NE+fzcaSPRHWYob8UEhyX pSj2IfHVq99wBdK+0AOPOMZ4P4aODiRYEwvvHspkCoN9pl0DNNvKfJiW795Ajs/ZoE4O 4FtA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tJ7fjlRqYEoTK7u+naYqmGfuEnKEOUvlrr/s0Vo7TLDo1DJ1sQMSZDNJG9F9rKjVw== X-Received: by 10.140.43.136 with SMTP id e8mr10259319qga.24.1465289991869; Tue, 07 Jun 2016 01:59:51 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 10.107.48.77 with SMTP id w74ls1448385iow.92.gmail; Tue, 07 Jun 2016 01:59:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.36.196.5 with SMTP id v5mr24618itf.4.1465289990926; Tue, 07 Jun 2016 01:59:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <62b7649a-5de5-4330-9bac-708375d36e2c@isocpp.org> X-Original-Sender: robert.bielik@gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: std-proposals@isocpp.org X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:26207 Archived-At: ------=_Part_3785_1957277192.1465289989791 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3786_342866607.1465289989791" ------=_Part_3786_342866607.1465289989791 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all, I've been programming audio for almost 20 years now, and just the other day= =20 started thinking of doing a C++ based basic audio API meeting my needs. So= =20 this is a very interesting topic indeed to me. I've done parts of Portaudio= =20 library (WDM/KS WaveRT) and the WASAPI Exclusive mode port of JUCE,=20 hopefully I can be of some use :) Some additional features I'd like to see, not sure if they've been=20 addressed: - "Hotplugging", i.e. the possibility to receive notifications when devices= =20 are inserted/removed, and handle this gracefully. - Timestamp for callbacks, flags for input overflow and output underflow. Regards /Robert Den l=C3=B6rdag 4 juni 2016 kl. 03:47:29 UTC+2 skrev alexande...@gmail.com: > > On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 8:30:49 PM UTC-5, Jeffrey Yasskin wrote:=20 > > On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Thiago Macieira = =20 > wrote:=20 > > On s=C3=A1bado, 4 de junho de 2016 02:20:15 BRT Andrey Semashev wrote:= =20 > >=20 > > > What is needed is a standardized interface for these different module= s=20 > >=20 > > > to work with each other. The interface should also allow me, the=20 > >=20 > > > developer, to work with the media (e.g. create my own audio or image= =20 > >=20 > > > filter or a new codec or a new device driver).=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > That I agree with.=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > But should the standard mandate that there should be at least one? How= =20 > does=20 > >=20 > > someone write a plugin to the C++ Standard Library? Will we now mandate= =20 > this=20 > >=20 > > kind of ability?=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > Yes. We already do this with things like the random engines.=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > If not, then will there be a requirement that the C++ library vendor=20 > provide=20 > >=20 > > it? If so, please think carefully how Apple should code libc++ to work= =20 > on iOS.=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > WebCrypto has an example of navigating a legal minefield for=20 > implementers.=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > Also remember to leave the legal speculation to lawyers. It's good to= =20 > have the heads-up that "hey lawyers should look at this", but anything mo= re=20 > is unwise.=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > Again, I think this is not material for the C++ Standard Library.=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > I think it's a great area for the C++ library to expand into. I'm=20 > definitely worried about the expertise of the people writing the proposal= =20 > (e.g. if I proposed an audio library for C++, I should be laughed off the= =20 > stage), but we can overcome that by asking well-known audio users for the= ir=20 > opinions before standardizing the proposal.=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > Jeffrey=20 > > I agree about the issue of expertise. By no means would I call myself an= =20 > expert, but I have a degree in audio engineering and a pretty solid grasp= =20 > of the c++ language. Are there people out there more skilled than me at= =20 > each topic? Of course, but that's why I am here, to get the opinions of= =20 > those people if I can an figure out what needs to be done to make this=20 > library a reality.=20 > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp= ..org/d/msgid/std-proposals/35a031e6-c62b-4fdc-9206-2c213567e097%40isocpp.or= g. ------=_Part_3786_342866607.1465289989791 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear all,

I've been programming aud= io for almost 20 years now, and just the other day started thinking of doin= g a C++ based basic audio API meeting my needs. So this is a very interesti= ng topic indeed to me. I've done parts of Portaudio library (WDM/KS Wav= eRT) and the WASAPI Exclusive mode port of JUCE, hopefully I can be of some= use :)

Some additional features I'd like to s= ee, not sure if they've been addressed:
- "Hotplugging&q= uot;, i.e. the possibility to receive notifications when devices are insert= ed/removed, and handle this gracefully.
- Timestamp for callbacks= , flags for input overflow and output underflow.

R= egards
/Robert

Den l=C3=B6rdag 4 juni 2016 kl. 03:4= 7:29 UTC+2 skrev alexande...@gmail.com:
On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 8:30:49 PM UTC-5, Jeffrey Yasskin wrote= :
> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Thiago Macieira <thi...@maci= eira.org> wrote:
> On s=C3=A1bado, 4 de junho de 2016 02:20:15 BRT Andrey Semashev wr= ote:
>=20
> > What is needed is a standardized interface for these differen= t modules
>=20
> > to work with each other. The interface should also allow me, = the
>=20
> > developer, to work with the media (e.g. create my own audio o= r image
>=20
> > filter or a new codec or a new device driver).
>=20
>=20
>=20
> That I agree with.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> But should the standard mandate that there should be at least one?= How does
>=20
> someone write a plugin to the C++ Standard Library? Will we now ma= ndate this
>=20
> kind of ability?
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Yes. We already do this with things like the random engines.
>=20
>=20
> If not, then will there be a requirement that the C++ library vend= or provide
>=20
> it? If so, please think carefully how Apple should code libc++ to = work on iOS.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> WebCrypto has an example of=C2=A0navigating a legal minefield for = implementers.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Also remember to leave the legal speculation to lawyers. It's = good to have the heads-up that "hey lawyers should look at this",= but anything more is unwise.
>=20
>=20
> Again, I think this is not material for the C++ Standard Library.
>=20
>=20
> I think it's a great area for the C++ library to expand into. = I'm definitely worried about the expertise of the people writing the pr= oposal (e.g. if I proposed an audio library for C++, I should be laughed of= f the stage), but we can overcome that by asking well-known audio users for= their opinions before standardizing the proposal.
>=20
>=20
> Jeffrey

I agree about the issue of expertise. By no means would I call myself a= n expert, but I have a degree in audio engineering and a pretty solid grasp= of the c++ language. Are there people out there more skilled than me at ea= ch topic? Of course, but that's why I am here, to get the opinions of t= hose people if I can an figure out what needs to be done to make this libra= ry a reality.=20

--
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposa= ls+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.= com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/35a031e6-c62b-4fdc-9206-2c213567e097= %40isocpp.org.
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