220 26165 article Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: alexander.zywicki@gmail.com Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: Any interest to adding audio support to the std library? 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Fri, 03 Jun 2016 19:35:38 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 10.107.36.69 with SMTP id k66ls554994iok.22.gmail; Fri, 03 Jun 2016 19:35:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.36.110.207 with SMTP id w198mr90888itc.6.1465007737640; Fri, 03 Jun 2016 19:35:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: alexander.zywicki@gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: std-proposals@isocpp.org X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:26165 Archived-At: ------=_Part_1147_620087267.1465007736584 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 9:11:26 PM UTC-5, Ron wrote: > Okay, I've done some thinking here.=C2=A0 The simplest solution should be= the correct one.=C2=A0 I think the standard should stick to something very= basic here, otherwise we get into an area that is too complicated to imple= ment.=C2=A0 All we should have in terms of a standard audio interface for C= ++ is: >=20 >=20 > 1) A method for enumerating the interfaces on a machine. > 2) A method for getting each interfaces capabilities (supported rates, bi= t depths etc.). > 3) A method for activating a requested device for sending and receiving f= rames in the requested format. >=20 >=20 > Valid types for audio samples should be either a signed integer, a float = or a double.=C2=A0 And that's pretty much it.=C2=A0 Get audio input, put au= dio output.=C2=A0 Anything other than that would be a different proposal al= l together.=C2=A0 Audio, video or DSP processing in general should certainl= y be a different proposal. >=20 >=20 > But I would propose we also add an int24_t class into the standard for pr= ocessing 24-bit samples.=C2=A0 Something as simple as this would suffice fo= r now: > class int24_t > { > private: > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 int8_t val[3]; > }; >=20 >=20 > Something more fully featured would be desirable, like this: https://gith= ub.com/RonNovy/CppDSP/blob/master/src/int24_t.h > But I guess that, would be another proposal. >=20 >=20 > On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 6:47 PM, wrote: > On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 8:30:49 PM UTC-5, Jeffrey Yasskin wrote: >=20 > > On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Thiago Macieira w= rote: >=20 > > On s=C3=A1bado, 4 de junho de 2016 02:20:15 BRT Andrey Semashev wrote: >=20 > > >=20 > > > What is needed is a standardized interface for these different module= s >=20 > > >=20 > > > to work with each other. The interface should also allow me, the >=20 > > >=20 > > > developer, to work with the media (e.g. create my own audio or image >=20 > > >=20 > > > filter or a new codec or a new device driver). >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > That I agree with. >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > But should the standard mandate that there should be at least one? How = does >=20 > > >=20 > > someone write a plugin to the C++ Standard Library? Will we now mandate= this >=20 > > >=20 > > kind of ability? >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > Yes. We already do this with things like the random engines. >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > If not, then will there be a requirement that the C++ library vendor pr= ovide >=20 > > >=20 > > it? If so, please think carefully how Apple should code libc++ to work = on iOS. >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > WebCrypto has an example of=C2=A0navigating a legal minefield for imple= menters. >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > Also remember to leave the legal speculation to lawyers. It's good to h= ave the heads-up that "hey lawyers should look at this", but anything more = is unwise. >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > Again, I think this is not material for the C++ Standard Library. >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > I think it's a great area for the C++ library to expand into. I'm defin= itely worried about the expertise of the people writing the proposal (e.g. = if I proposed an audio library for C++, I should be laughed off the stage),= but we can overcome that by asking well-known audio users for their opinio= ns before standardizing the proposal. >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > Jeffrey >=20 >=20 >=20 > I agree about the issue of expertise. By no means would I call myself an = expert, but I have a degree in audio engineering and a pretty solid grasp o= f the c++ language. Are there people out there more skilled than me at each= topic? Of course, but that's why I am here, to get the opinions of those p= eople if I can an figure out what needs to be done to make this library a r= eality. >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- >=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. >=20 > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an= email to std-proposal...@isocpp.org. >=20 > To post to this group, send email to std-pr...@isocpp.org. >=20 > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/isoc= pp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/62b7649a-5de5-4330-9bac-708375d36e2c%40isocpp.= org. I think that simplicity is a good way to go but I believe that what you are= proposing may be too basic. As it stands none of the std containers meet t= he needs for audio. The closest I would argue could be std::array of you ar= e okay with a buffer length fixed at compile time or std::vector but std::v= ector could cause a dynamic memory allocation on a real time thread if the = user tries to push_back and the vector needs to expand. This allocation cou= ld lead to an unknown wait time for the audio thread and possibly result in= buffer under flow to the driver. You could use a plain array but that leav= es room for memory leaks and makes copying buffers difficult.=20 A container designed for real-time usage would be needed.=20 I don't see how processing would need to be a different proposal, what is a= n audio library without a well organized and effiecint way means for intera= cting with the audio data?=20 If processing does need to be a different proposal, I do believe that they = would need to be designed simultaneously so that they might be easily inter= faces with each other, because I feel that they would most likely be used i= n conjunction in many cases. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp= ..org/d/msgid/std-proposals/a27c2580-c766-4488-bc26-a7b15783e0fd%40isocpp.or= g. ------=_Part_1147_620087267.1465007736584-- .