220 26164 article Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: ron novy Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: Any interest to adding audio support to the std library? 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[2607:f8b0:4001:c06::235]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id y1si2022771ity.69.2016.06.03.19.11.24 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 03 Jun 2016 19:11:24 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rsn10100@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4001:c06::235 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4001:c06::235; Original-Received: by mail-io0-x235.google.com with SMTP id t40so96711284ioi.0 for ; Fri, 03 Jun 2016 19:11:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.107.164.25 with SMTP id n25mr7860463ioe.48.1465006284502; Fri, 03 Jun 2016 19:11:24 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.64.142.113 with HTTP; Fri, 3 Jun 2016 19:11:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <62b7649a-5de5-4330-9bac-708375d36e2c@isocpp.org> X-Original-Sender: rsn10100@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rsn10100@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4001:c06::235 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=rsn10100@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: std-proposals@isocpp.org X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:26164 Archived-At: --001a1141cf0c2e8c9105346a5bda Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Okay, I've done some thinking here. The simplest solution should be the correct one. I think the standard should stick to something very basic here, otherwise we get into an area that is too complicated to implement. All we should have in terms of a standard audio interface for C++ is: 1) A method for enumerating the interfaces on a machine. 2) A method for getting each interfaces capabilities (supported rates, bit depths etc.). 3) A method for activating a requested device for sending and receiving frames in the requested format. Valid types for audio samples should be either a signed integer, a float or a double. And that's pretty much it. Get audio input, put audio output. Anything other than that would be a different proposal all together. Audio, video or DSP processing in general should certainly be a different proposal. But I would propose we also add an int24_t class into the standard for processing 24-bit samples. Something as simple as this would suffice for now: class int24_t { private: int8_t val[3]; }; Something more fully featured would be desirable, like this: https://github.com/RonNovy/CppDSP/blob/master/src/int24_t.h But I guess that, would be another proposal. On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 6:47 PM, wrote: > On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 8:30:49 PM UTC-5, Jeffrey Yasskin wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Thiago Macieira > wrote: > > On s=C3=A1bado, 4 de junho de 2016 02:20:15 BRT Andrey Semashev wrote: > > > > > What is needed is a standardized interface for these different module= s > > > > > to work with each other. The interface should also allow me, the > > > > > developer, to work with the media (e.g. create my own audio or image > > > > > filter or a new codec or a new device driver). > > > > > > > > That I agree with. > > > > > > > > But should the standard mandate that there should be at least one? How > does > > > > someone write a plugin to the C++ Standard Library? Will we now mandate > this > > > > kind of ability? > > > > > > > > Yes. We already do this with things like the random engines. > > > > > > If not, then will there be a requirement that the C++ library vendor > provide > > > > it? If so, please think carefully how Apple should code libc++ to work > on iOS. > > > > > > > > WebCrypto has an example of navigating a legal minefield for > implementers. > > > > > > > > Also remember to leave the legal speculation to lawyers. It's good to > have the heads-up that "hey lawyers should look at this", but anything mo= re > is unwise. > > > > > > Again, I think this is not material for the C++ Standard Library. > > > > > > I think it's a great area for the C++ library to expand into. I'm > definitely worried about the expertise of the people writing the proposal > (e.g. if I proposed an audio library for C++, I should be laughed off the > stage), but we can overcome that by asking well-known audio users for the= ir > opinions before standardizing the proposal. > > > > > > Jeffrey > > I agree about the issue of expertise. By no means would I call myself an > expert, but I have a degree in audio engineering and a pretty solid grasp > of the c++ language. Are there people out there more skilled than me at > each topic? Of course, but that's why I am here, to get the opinions of > those people if I can an figure out what needs to be done to make this > library a reality. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. > To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/62b7649a-5de= 5-4330-9bac-708375d36e2c%40isocpp.org > . > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp= ..org/d/msgid/std-proposals/CAOcFa%3DfnWS%3DT2p6xgQ_EiCnVTmkSk_UrobDMYvXhaKi= 95cxrdQ%40mail.gmail.com. --001a1141cf0c2e8c9105346a5bda Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Okay, I've done some thinking here.=C2=A0 The sim= plest solution should be the correct one.=C2=A0 I think the standard should= stick to something very basic here, otherwise we get into an area that is = too complicated to implement.=C2=A0 All we should have in terms of a standa= rd audio interface for C++ is:

1) A method for enu= merating the interfaces on a machine.
2) A method for getting eac= h interfaces capabilities (supported rates, bit depths etc.).
3) = A method for activating a requested device for sending and receiving frames= in the requested format.

Valid types for audio sa= mples should be either a signed integer, a float or a double.=C2=A0 And tha= t's pretty much it.=C2=A0 Get audio input, put audio output.=C2=A0 Anyt= hing other than that would be a different proposal all together.=C2=A0 Audi= o, video or DSP processing in general should certainly be a different propo= sal.

But I would propose we also add an int24_t cl= ass into the standard for processing 24-bit samples.=C2=A0 Something as sim= ple as this would suffice for now:
class int24_t
{
private:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 int8_t val[3];
};

Something more fully featured would be desirable, like thi= s: = https://github.com/RonNovy/CppDSP/blob/master/src/int24_t.h
B= ut I guess that, would be another proposal.

On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 6:47 PM, <alexander.zywicki@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 8:30:49 PM UTC-5, Jeffrey Yassk= in wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Thiago Macieira <<= a href=3D"mailto:thi...@macieira.org">thi...@macieira.org> wrote: > On s=C3=A1bado, 4 de junho de 2016 02:20:15 BRT Andrey Semashev wrote:=
>
> > What is needed is a standardized interface for these different mo= dules
>
> > to work with each other. The interface should also allow me, the<= br> >
> > developer, to work with the media (e.g. create my own audio or im= age
>
> > filter or a new codec or a new device driver).
>
>
>
> That I agree with.
>
>
>
> But should the standard mandate that there should be at least one? How= does
>
> someone write a plugin to the C++ Standard Library? Will we now mandat= e this
>
> kind of ability?
>
>
>
> Yes. We already do this with things like the random engines.
>
>
> If not, then will there be a requirement that the C++ library vendor p= rovide
>
> it? If so, please think carefully how Apple should code libc++ to work= on iOS.
>
>
>
> WebCrypto has an example of=C2=A0navigating a legal minefield for impl= ementers.
>
>
>
> Also remember to leave the legal speculation to lawyers. It's good= to have the heads-up that "hey lawyers should look at this", but= anything more is unwise.
>
>
> Again, I think this is not material for the C++ Standard Library.
>
>
> I think it's a great area for the C++ library to expand into. I= 9;m definitely worried about the expertise of the people writing the propos= al (e.g. if I proposed an audio library for C++, I should be laughed off th= e stage), but we can overcome that by asking well-known audio users for the= ir opinions before standardizing the proposal.
>
>
> Jeffrey

I agree about the issue of expertise. By no means would I call mysel= f an expert, but I have a degree in audio engineering and a pretty solid gr= asp of the c++ language. Are there people out there more skilled than me at= each topic? Of course, but that's why I am here, to get the opinions o= f those people if I can an figure out what needs to be done to make this li= brary a reality.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-propo= sals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.go= ogle.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/62b7649a-5de5-4330-9bac-708375d= 36e2c%40isocpp.org.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposa= ls+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/CAOcFa%3DfnWS= %3DT2p6xgQ_EiCnVTmkSk_UrobDMYvXhaKi95cxrdQ%40mail.gmail.com.
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