220 24465 article Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Sam Kellett Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: Re: [tuple] extracting tuples out of a tuple Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 08:56:50 +0000 Lines: 118 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: References: <7e08b6c5-853c-471e-b248-a9df7e8e27be@isocpp.org> <67c3c86d-3089-4f07-878a-3f3e706744df@isocpp.org> <42a29c5b-07e4-4e36-bab4-03a7e86ff905@isocpp.org> <6e02dbfe-01f3-4840-92ab-bcc8f7824348@isocpp.org> <586249ad-b4ae-4e40-bdf7-344a641ad4c9@isocpp.org> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113fcdae173c30052c078cd2 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1455785814 14825 80.91.229.3 (18 Feb 2016 08:56:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 08:56:54 +0000 (UTC) To: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBDY6DWXBQIPRBU4OS23AKGQEG5X3U2A@isocpp.org Thu Feb 18 09:56:53 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-wm0-f70.google.com ([74.125.82.70]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aWKOL-0007Gz-4v for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 09:56:53 +0100 Original-Received: by mail-wm0-f70.google.com with SMTP id c200sf4344131wme.0 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 00:56:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=isocpp-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=sFYzOq3k/DpHSG0WWImQTe34JvTgIHg+tx5V0ERvKMo=; b=00prtcUCqJ96R6mAwDZp7bjkQzxwpiaQYNbDQYUbQeb8PKfdD67AEucTfDskjCV5pz O50xH5HWu1ClAUuUde2mAaQHZiQSpTmRopYHn7qZjpqucdYlUQV0nXID6j6YQCxR++H6 M8zzy1EKhoXzQu+x5yFeWzrJyeCz0ZyW7pVCYBvRoXn8rcIHuQER1sH21MoHsGCq9FAM AnAcM4qafFR3UXfA48kfB10XLfkPt9Sw88/nx+4ptcJUR45j1Q47BsTDSEyUKH2PKZP2 eANb898bpz4mgeozzYRRJjQWdrXWFfgVLdNbYoDkztZWSkEhf/tb0tzAW12D7nkg5WFp dTVg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=sFYzOq3k/DpHSG0WWImQTe34JvTgIHg+tx5V0ERvKMo=; b=HTdZTv04jcJYGWY7BUyjuM+eNxyyWjbrxQb48JPZsCfIIclwmHVYJkW9rAW/bXy2l4 AOoWLYRWbnYoWTxwNcqRB310uy8O96hQABSoRAePsgvNmwDkRURMjqv8rqYDXjKLJES/ l82mWvqWyQMv4WXiXY+6QsutiHkIpZLoCPGxyZbBDpGNrn003C9k5d6HBhGcYCxjxO87 9OWr1mEwYyEbeiZw9+VTHM6SpnSTk2gZiN/FhQ6LNG40BRF5i6D3cBX5Y7p54WaY6iCi hqW9SJJgkwzkp4Bsi8ZQ3T0TKBn5APLEnRfTUSjCFTjscuW1ql+FgCJqvQuj+MrAype4 sClw== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOQbVkO3mSs8zMiX1HxbLfd+Ci/eOBYlKqoMcT47Rl90+MDRGVmNpaPhLsvgNl2oww== X-Received: by 10.112.135.234 with SMTP id pv10mr828901lbb.24.1455785812552; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 00:56:52 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 10.25.4.214 with SMTP id 205ls299009lfe.32.gmail; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 00:56:50 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.25.141.65 with SMTP id p62mr57678lfd.10.1455785810398; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 00:56:50 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from mail-lf0-x233.google.com (mail-lf0-x233.google.com. [2a00:1450:4010:c07::233]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id iy6si3252058lbc.138.2016.02.18.00.56.50 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 18 Feb 2016 00:56:50 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of samkellett@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c07::233 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4010:c07::233; Original-Received: by mail-lf0-x233.google.com with SMTP id m1so28076377lfg.0 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 00:56:50 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.25.37.136 with SMTP id l130mr2269832lfl.60.1455785810276; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 00:56:50 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.114.185.201 with HTTP; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 00:56:50 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: samkellett@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of samkellett@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c07::233 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=samkellett@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: std-proposals@isocpp.org X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:24465 Archived-At: --001a113fcdae173c30052c078cd2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On 17 February 2016 at 18:06, Matthew Woehlke wrote: > On 2016-02-17 04:40, Sam Kellett wrote: > > my personal opinion is that hana's is much much much more obvious > > (the lambda version of the example specifically), in no short reason > > because it's interface is based on the existing standard library. why > > do we need two syntax's in one language when we can do it all with > > one? > > ...because parameter packs "don't exist" in a sense. Accordingly, it is > *necessary* that there exists a language syntax to instruct the compiler > how to turn them into real code. > > As I stated elsewhere, a lot of the ranting and railing I see here is > directed not at unpacking, but at *fold expressions*. That's borderline > off topic, and I'm not necessarily opposed to improving fold > expressions. (Though I also agree with Nicol that fold expressions are > at least as understandable, and in some cases more so, than hana.) > > The point about familiarity here is apt. The hana syntax is obtuse to > anyone not familiar with it. Fold expressions... do have their own > problems, but IMHO are easier to grasp for someone who is a total novice > with both. > > > also yours appears to be inherently ungoogle-able. assuming i don't > > understand either syntax, for louis' i type into google 'c++ > hana::unpack', > > what do i type to find the reference pages for yours? > > https://www.google.com/search?q=c%2B%2B+fold+expressions so assuming that you *don't* understand the code you are looking at. how on earth did you deduce what they are called? -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposals/. --001a113fcdae173c30052c078cd2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 1= 7 February 2016 at 18:06, Matthew Woehlke <mwoehlke.floss@gmail.com= > wrote:
O= n 2016-02-17 04:40, Sam Kellett wrote:
> my personal opinion is that hana's is much much much more obvious<= br> > (the lambda version of the example specifically), in no short reason > because it's interface is based on the existing standard library. = why
> do we need two syntax's in one language when we can do it all with=
> one?

...because parameter packs "don't exist" in a sense. A= ccordingly, it is
*necessary* that there exists a language syntax to instruct the compiler how to turn them into real code.

As I stated elsewhere, a lot of the ranting and railing I see here is
directed not at unpacking, but at *fold expressions*. That's borderline=
off topic, and I'm not necessarily opposed to improving fold
expressions. (Though I also agree with Nicol that fold expressions are
at least as understandable, and in some cases more so, than hana.)

The point about familiarity here is apt. The hana syntax is obtuse to
anyone not familiar with it. Fold expressions... do have their own
problems, but IMHO are easier to grasp for someone who is a total novice with both.

> also yours appears to be inherently ungoogle-able. assuming i don'= t
> understand either syntax, for louis' i type into google 'c++ h= ana::unpack',
> what do i type to find the reference pages for yours?

https://www.google.com/search?q=3Dc= %2B%2B+fold+expressions

so assuming tha= t you *don't* understand the code you are looking at. how on earth did = you deduce what they are called?

--

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