220 21758 article Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: thorsten.ottosen@gmail.com Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: is await an extension of the do-notation? (was Re: Re: Resumable expressions p0114r0 vs async/await P0057R0) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 04:50:33 -0700 (PDT) Lines: 93 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: References: <639f0012-8cb4-4db3-82a6-8d042a3497f9@isocpp.org> <401aa118-ed0b-4c7b-92cf-3fbd706eff9d@isocpp.org> <1d15dbc4-e0c1-4df1-86db-014e11f14d26@isocpp.org> <56114953.4030701@wanadoo.fr> <561B403D.4030403@gmail.com> <561C07D1.3080304@gmail.com> <561C213F.1060009@gmail.com> <561C3875.2050701@gmail.com> <86924069-44d0-447f-bf8a-a42e46579832@isocpp.org> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_271_1998080566.1444823433810" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1444823439 31207 80.91.229.3 (14 Oct 2015 11:50:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 11:50:39 +0000 (UTC) To: ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBCYO7JVYVADBBC4D7GYAKGQEBWGVIKY@isocpp.org Wed Oct 14 13:50:38 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-vk0-f69.google.com ([209.85.213.69]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZmKZp-00059j-D7 for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 13:50:37 +0200 Original-Received: by vkaw128 with SMTP id w128sf64517369vka.2 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 04:50:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :content-type:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=YxK+x12YTZNVE6IzUGEbWziFD5quuYZ8MmNOqM7YJrs=; b=HGAa2PK7mMLQ5e1GtP5z6nUFL0dLy2ki1uVpgJyoYGyPJP1kjI6jhaxSF7BDMe1MOH Ou6POmC1Px2sA5pc4uucX9Ecs1DOL6wXvia5+KQsSEVlTTbcCfyNaLgWJKQ0sM3/TS+y d+9XnCUpJ5JauMQClMIfvwoYalkPcyLYgfhV+oK1joMKTaffq0txLVNgxOWsxSu0RC9O 8EP4o7sj54C3SvXQ4mgSPRlBzSrui+h9Rvuci2ZRo81UGocywDSmbd/uczSIdgejZUcm P7aIhUz+zGBvG5ZiHDd7xL/uN/85Y0eoNYUQGOWgla6WBV61iB1Nnww1t58R/z0Qau2e 3rHA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references :subject:mime-version:content-type:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=YxK+x12YTZNVE6IzUGEbWziFD5quuYZ8MmNOqM7YJrs=; b=ZbQmWYEb/lfcrUI39vyMqmDxKwGUCUkYPLHUwDksN6og6mx6+YIFUETsufzSwkRdbf klrVfXcg4TXMTYLpVbA5E/gLK9reHjmpPLnHxtAouJTc0IXfaJ61JajnyfV6uknOLEUs LFpSjaMfEJsL/fny5trEtMMQ/2IeZQsoi0Xo0+UdyV9dwDmgBlGVNjaBzBz4PxLZmCwn OgUdFeVr3DADK7qcW6bjRwB+p55+Tr0WFu8Rw6yyoy01nsJLISzIb3WJK4agkFSZv4sG 9gv1HnpSRc1fbzq0kTIwBgc3/8K0pIeFvtZ9JWipEBJR0IbQxSej7l5OUdfa1VUEQx0i fiCw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQk3hwIeIRxAcrHPRc6CQKxq8MSX7gBfW9T6QqrS3TucOnmCNLn24M+BYc7WUJgIS88EUyl5 X-Received: by 10.129.46.204 with SMTP id u195mr2098887ywu.47.1444823436319; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 04:50:36 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 10.50.225.34 with SMTP id rh2ls1746996igc.34.canary; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 04:50:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.111.138 with SMTP id ii10mr57621igb.0.1444823434794; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 04:50:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <86924069-44d0-447f-bf8a-a42e46579832@isocpp.org> X-Original-Sender: thorsten.ottosen@gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: std-proposals@isocpp.org X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:21758 Archived-At: ------=_Part_271_1998080566.1444823433810 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_272_62579400.1444823433810" ------=_Part_272_62579400.1444823433810 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 1:03:34 AM UTC+2, Gor Nishanov wrote: > > > I have had an outstanding challenge for a year already to anyone who > thinks that way to come up with a real world problem, reduce it to > managable size (say async_tcp_reader) write it up it both ways using P0057 > and whatever you consider zero overhead and evaluate on three criteria: > > 1) How much code end-user have to write > 2) How much library support required > 3) What is an abstraction penalty, how many instructions need to get > executed to get from, say, await Read(buf, len) to an low-level > API/hardware, say WSARecv > > My statement is that P0057 is as good or better on all 3 criteria than any > other proposal I've seen. If you want to accept the challenge, write up an > equivalent to TcpReader described in one of these two presentations: > > That is a good way forward. I think the abstraction penalty should be the same, otherwise the "resumable" proposal is dead. Given that, I don't agree that the amount of code is the most important aspect. What matters here is that normal programmers should be able to write correct programs without subtle bugs. I don't mind writing a little more code, if the resulting code is easier to get correct. kind regards Thorsten -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposals/. ------=_Part_272_62579400.1444823433810 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 1:03:34 AM UTC+2, Gor Nishanov wrot= e:

I = have had an outstanding challenge for a year already to anyone who thinks t= hat way to come up with a real world problem, reduce it to managable size (= say async_tcp_reader) write it up it both ways using P0057 and whatever you= consider zero overhead and evaluate on three criteria:

1) How much code end-user have to write
2) How much library= support required
3) What is an abstraction penalty, how many ins= tructions need to get executed to get from, say, await Read(buf, len) to an= low-level API/hardware, say WSARecv

My statement = is that P0057 is as good or better on all 3 criteria than any other proposa= l I've seen. If you want to accept the challenge, write up an equivalen= t to TcpReader described in one of these two presentations:

=

That is a good way forward. I think the abstraction p= enalty should be the same, otherwise the "resumable" proposal is = dead. Given that, I don't agree that the amount of code is the most imp= ortant aspect. What matters here is that normal programmers should be able = to write correct programs without subtle bugs. I don't mind writing a l= ittle more code, if the resulting code is easier to get correct.

ki= nd regards

Thorsten
=C2=A0

--

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