220 21440 article Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Bo Persson Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: alias_ptr, restrict_ptr, unaligned_ptr Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 18:13:23 +0200 Lines: 63 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: References: <1580933.kjMTu375fQ@tjmaciei-mobl4> <2377636.q9WPHpPlTT@tjmaciei-mobl4> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1444320833 7069 80.91.229.3 (8 Oct 2015 16:13:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 16:13:53 +0000 (UTC) To: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBCZ6RLW3UIKBBMVM3KYAKGQE4TNBWGY@isocpp.org Thu Oct 08 18:13:44 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-lb0-f200.google.com ([209.85.217.200]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZkDp7-0002yO-CD for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Thu, 08 Oct 2015 18:13:41 +0200 Original-Received: by lbbti1 with SMTP id ti1sf26625435lbb.3 for ; Thu, 08 Oct 2015 09:13:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:subject:date:lines:message-id:references :mime-version:content-type:user-agent:in-reply-to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=ZAch6UD4Ld6D52fOc9KdJxJ08dlhCG0ySqYKsqZbi/A=; b=JmHLTW3qDkYuNu+1xXjfiAv5ka2jRh1v20tGf96boLqxm58uQI332NBUIeLL0GbVmZ bu5jDJOLdTIN8pXH21pA59mtTl2Zd9ovrYU/9XYLwGkOsPBgwaj5X8iULj7AFWVYIGHm Wqb99sGF3l/xoopFlHtXvKRmhhwuYGpqPvJA5L0+LKmjFxmiSPBAA09TZCQ4sxG+HCVp dNC+OkjdHiIy1RM2rpGYtWlKgh0uA8SFIQhdaU9k/eIBWi0EaDNScAgp04Dcxt5c9zc7 DFgijdHIgDd3cChnS78SwLjr9lAlYVyzgQ2cCRKNSQsbQ1iMXouqj7QXRXGcp34aH2zh X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmZsyztI4vX6RfDQQMeknTC0GZFoxD8mMrhWaAkkQVcTBwa7OSiVEHG3Lqx3tb7kGP59fpe X-Received: by 10.112.198.33 with SMTP id iz1mr1588164lbc.8.1444320820677; Thu, 08 Oct 2015 09:13:40 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 10.25.163.73 with SMTP id m70ls212472lfe.39.gmail; Thu, 08 Oct 2015 09:13:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.25.152.211 with SMTP id a202mr2717305lfe.66.1444320818302; Thu, 08 Oct 2015 09:13:38 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org (plane.gmane.org. [80.91.229.3]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q20si30329839lfe.30.2015.10.08.09.13.38 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 08 Oct 2015 09:13:38 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org designates 80.91.229.3 as permitted sender) client-ip=80.91.229.3; Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZkDou-0002n4-5m for std-proposals@isocpp.org; Thu, 08 Oct 2015 18:13:28 +0200 Original-Received: from c-8588e655.021-326-6d6c6d10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se ([85.230.136.133]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 08 Oct 2015 18:13:28 +0200 Original-Received: from bop by c-8588e655.021-326-6d6c6d10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 08 Oct 2015 18:13:28 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 54 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-8588e655.021-326-6d6c6d10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 In-Reply-To: <2377636.q9WPHpPlTT@tjmaciei-mobl4> X-Original-Sender: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org designates 80.91.229.3 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: std-proposals@isocpp.org X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:21440 Archived-At: On 2015-10-07 23:55, Thiago Macieira wrote: > On Wednesday 07 October 2015 06:42:52 Nicol Bolas wrote: >> On Wednesday, October 7, 2015 at 1:59:31 AM UTC-4, Thiago Macieira wrote: >>> On Tuesday 06 October 2015 15:30:43 Nicol Bolas wrote: >>>> The Standard For Programming Language C++ exists for one purpose: to >>> >>> define >>> >>>> *behavior*. Not behavior "on typical architectures"; behavior >>> >>> *everywhere*. >>> >>> On the other hand, there's something to be said about the 0.01% case >>> holding >>> the 99.99% case hostage... >> >> That's why I suggested a TS, where we can actually define these sorts of >> things. As a TS, it wouldn't be a required part of C++, but it would be >> conditionally supported by implementations that could implement it. >> >> That way, all this behavior doesn't have to be "implementation-defined". >> You can actually *say* what it means. > > Can we have a TS for "modern computers (two's complement. 8-bit bytes, IEEE > 754 floating point)"? > > I have to say, if this is successful, it will probably become "de facto" > standard, since it will probably map to over 99.99% of applications written. > The rest will suffer. > That might satisfy a large portion of the VISIBLE software written. However, a significant amount of inhouse software is written for IBM hardware. Remember that IBM voted against removing trigraphs, because they are really used. Guess what will happen if we try to ban EBCDIC and non-IEEE floating point. The mainframe business is OLDER than both ASCII and IEEE-754, and has one cornerstone in backwards compatibility. I work for a bank that still uses programs originally written in the 1960's! The business model for some kinds of long term loans doesn't change for decades. For example, if you have a 30 year mortgage on your house, would you like to pay extra so the lender can rewrite their software every 10 years? Without changing anything in the conditions, of course. Bo Persson -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposals/. .