220 18928 <23DC3B9C-0141-40BA-9831-ED9C3E1B2AA9@gmail.com> article Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Krauss Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: Re: 0o for Octal? Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 15:37:02 +0800 Lines: 135 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: <23DC3B9C-0141-40BA-9831-ED9C3E1B2AA9@gmail.com> References: <81dc7616-d144-4405-a64c-b69fb5aa0abb@isocpp.org> <1715833.joSX1JMTNV@tjmaciei-mobl4> <1541392.mnVbZ0chaf@tjmaciei-mobl4> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6DA0A5C4-0726-4EE1-B1B0-70AB92DF0A11" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1435822639 17162 80.91.229.3 (2 Jul 2015 07:37:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 07:37:19 +0000 (UTC) To: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBCW25A7E3QCRBK6U2OWAKGQE467NM3Q@isocpp.org Thu Jul 02 09:37:19 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-yk0-f200.google.com ([209.85.160.200]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZAZ3d-0007qP-IJ for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Thu, 02 Jul 2015 09:37:17 +0200 Original-Received: by ykdr198 with SMTP id r198sf99106316ykd.1 for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2015 00:37:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-type:message-id:mime-version :subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=b+xliiu1sdRU24Z/p9JLO7ouZtr+JwRUgRvZM+2BJb8=; b=AVsKaXNpxJhvtf3x7bzuvXDqJHlZEKXfIPXA1iwCSckXIbzcYQIf2lztVpCar8mZ4A i+sTZfwMy/QoIbdmthfjcIC1X8F+okVLKkcqH9VuHzewTk1k4YyKJW1rrzrh5cJVvYjT vhfXvo6zGrCXA1wA3wd0YLMzcM9T92holThBAzxrFNqOuv3a80BY5+GYAEIT0gEFHQG5 l/9/8A/hOgu8ZJbYyoq/YEgaV3ut30EamZXOyhN7Z8ZTrhP5AbmMOyYKGb2JWrQy5tXd F7PsWt2yNjRC0A/bIhb26E9XcedFxCNsmMyRDoaEqQ/SB6FvJRR9qaGVzf7gO3beFlB/ 453g== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkVszd+ZCeD/TPLroPEpT5a/RE7vaAnik38f+DoCB8ong3lmzij7bEoMrZWHTXQwDEnS1gM X-Received: by 10.52.100.102 with SMTP id ex6mr40030925vdb.0.1435822636476; Thu, 02 Jul 2015 00:37:16 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 10.50.2.34 with SMTP id 2ls1923968igr.1.canary; Thu, 02 Jul 2015 00:37:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.70.37.69 with SMTP id w5mr62912515pdj.123.1435822635663; Thu, 02 Jul 2015 00:37:15 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from mail-pa0-x236.google.com (mail-pa0-x236.google.com. [2607:f8b0:400e:c03::236]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ok4si7582457pab.221.2015.07.02.00.37.15 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 02 Jul 2015 00:37:15 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of potswa@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400e:c03::236 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400e:c03::236; Original-Received: by pacws9 with SMTP id ws9so36923249pac.0 for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2015 00:37:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.68.117.73 with SMTP id kc9mr57397804pbb.121.1435822635494; Thu, 02 Jul 2015 00:37:15 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [172.20.10.2] ([121.54.54.52]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id x2sm4592960pda.31.2015.07.02.00.37.11 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 02 Jul 2015 00:37:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1541392.mnVbZ0chaf@tjmaciei-mobl4> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) X-Original-Sender: potswa@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of potswa@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400e:c03::236 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=potswa@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: std-proposals@isocpp.org X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:18928 Archived-At: --Apple-Mail=_6DA0A5C4-0726-4EE1-B1B0-70AB92DF0A11 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > On 2015=E2=80=9307=E2=80=9302, at 2:04 PM, Thiago Macieira wrote: >=20 > The problem is that the file permissions are *everywhere* due to "everyth= ing is=20 > a file" and virtual filesystem support. Where is everywhere? I=E2=80=99m curious, do they ever really support much = application-level behavior, or are they only viral inside lower levels of t= he software stack? I notice that Qt translates permission bits to hex. > We could convince people that the uapi=20 > headers should be fixed[*], but asking to change anything else is going t= o hit=20 > a wall until a solution is found for file permissions. In the other thread, =E2=80=9CPOSIX binding,=E2=80=9D I make a case for dis= connecting C++ from platform headers. The solution would be a translation s= tep turning C headers into C++. The inputs would be ordinary /usr/include a= nd a platform-independent POSIX binding. Platforms could, for instance, imp= lement one flag to disable the raw POSIX headers and octal together. Non-PO= SIX platform extensions would need treatment, too. The translation could pu= ll unknown interfaces into some kind of quarantine namespace. --=20 ---=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposa= ls/. --Apple-Mail=_6DA0A5C4-0726-4EE1-B1B0-70AB92DF0A11 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
On 2015=E2=80=9307= =E2=80=9302, at 2:04 PM, Thiago Macieira <thiago@macieira.org> wrote:

The problem is that the file per= missions are *everywhere* due to "everything is 
a file" a= nd virtual filesystem support.

Where is everywhere? I=E2=80=99m curious, do they ever really = support much application-level behavior, or are they only viral inside lowe= r levels of the software stack?

I notic= e that Qt translates permission bits to hex.

We could convince people that = the uapi 
headers should be fixed[*], but asking to change= anything else is going to hit <= /span>
a wall until a solution is= found for file permissions.
=
In the other thread, =E2= =80=9CPOSIX binding,=E2=80=9D I make a case for disconnecting C++ from plat= form headers. The solution would be a translation step turning C headers in= to C++. The inputs would be ordinary /usr/include and a platform-independent POSIX binding. Platforms co= uld, for instance, implement one flag to disable the raw POSIX headers and = octal together. Non-POSIX platform extensions would need treatment, too. Th= e translation could pull unknown interfaces into some kind of quarantine na= mespace.

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