220 18697 <7b8c3306-5675-4322-964a-07ff7316eb53@isocpp.org> article Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Vadim Petrochenkov Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: if not (expression) like python Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2015 03:16:50 -0700 (PDT) Lines: 123 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: <7b8c3306-5675-4322-964a-07ff7316eb53@isocpp.org> References: <51565265-ec78-4f6b-b684-64aed8fd9a57@isocpp.org> <558400A2.2040005@gmail.com> <8f64343f-e5b8-424a-83df-4385c46c5ef9@isocpp.org> <1464415.iy2aHB31Tl@tjmaciei-mobl4> <83C9452F-9B49-4A43-A8E5-EC98C3A1EDC2@gmail.com> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_1955_114902112.1434881810383" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1434881815 28853 80.91.229.3 (21 Jun 2015 10:16:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2015 10:16:55 +0000 (UTC) To: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBCJOZ3HVXIEBBE46TKWAKGQEB34JEIA@isocpp.org Sun Jun 21 12:16:55 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-ie0-f198.google.com ([209.85.223.198]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Z6cJ3-0006Vj-5V for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Sun, 21 Jun 2015 12:16:53 +0200 Original-Received: by iebqu10 with SMTP id qu10sf219154961ieb.3 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 2015 03:16:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :content-type:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=PPqIuG1ZO5N3thS9pFePIXUwyvFIal3xLqMN7I3lVv8=; b=kgC5MUUl3hQdqA3WtfvG8ogHCuv6MAPrtsozKaqL/Ijcl8U3XnXx0FxP94mM91Aq5u lmpvcLb7IdUGyOz3wdUZaUPlxQb7QpGbFbOe2rLcZVKDBIjQ3Mepu6XStpVrJVC7O2cZ nZTwBGGqOx9DpeeBaJkzz6DrYEms9HgOi5Lp9xS8TrbiPbo7o/+0OYHm9wBHhzmPAyC+ CQ0hJ0xZWwhaPRDNgsrQnUYg5upB60jiRTeMMnTwbpCaNPXT8NGZD8qAH86YFOCx9Do4 TrCNzf7pmWYyNyuHn2rqpPSLJPgeNV8FieGDoBfVPJOO8Pv64dsjzqY/u596KOOrU8NM UvtQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references :subject:mime-version:content-type:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=PPqIuG1ZO5N3thS9pFePIXUwyvFIal3xLqMN7I3lVv8=; b=bCHgYNrPrYRgbVDGrcx7d5nTUJkgWvh7umhlKAlf99ZnwMqUGpAFKeESxcyUR4fZVQ VlqXZ7+msXcQ3nGlNzrUmmlX71pL5ThovNNKnTtPKdT6Fcs9tnGYgC0eTejoUy1mseRZ 3zimcCW4P1YVe645K+5oXvR01nhi80tJ8SlbDV8QMTMT3lq0QxblJSP14Eemuq7YQILN 48sy+Mh7eueN7szMKa0BfmrMHEHKnkF9Vr9GgcOYHl1aHoJeCERUcVfU4hZR2BCjGK0Q SeQcfQFGk+ry8Y3bzO2DvJ3ziipnjTlpKIL8gAlBQGvq/HVsQwnECtJqOBgq4/ihPtHP whsg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkrowSid7kTm8qGdinRsr/DqHM1G7n2BGIxpH4XRh2ESsXtP8LCVLaH1WqrS8z4AeCKGtwA X-Received: by 10.182.226.169 with SMTP id rt9mr32699343obc.10.1434881812017; Sun, 21 Jun 2015 03:16:52 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 10.140.31.227 with SMTP id f90ls2791734qgf.9.gmail; Sun, 21 Jun 2015 03:16:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.140.33.202 with SMTP id j68mr379861qgj.41.1434881811116; Sun, 21 Jun 2015 03:16:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83C9452F-9B49-4A43-A8E5-EC98C3A1EDC2@gmail.com> X-Original-Sender: vadim.petrochenkov@gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: std-proposals@isocpp.org X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:18697 Archived-At: ------=_Part_1955_114902112.1434881810383 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1956_571997731.1434881810383" ------=_Part_1956_571997731.1434881810383 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As an anecdote: I had `not`, `and` and `or` instead of `!`, `&&` and `||`= =20 as a part of style guide at one of the previous jobs, and we did have all= =20 the characters on our keyboards. At first they seemed strange, but they indeed were more visible/more=20 readable/less noisy than their symbolic counterparts, especially `not`. On Sunday, June 21, 2015 at 5:12:01 AM UTC+3, David Krauss wrote: > > > On 2015=E2=80=9306=E2=80=9320, at 2:15 AM, Matthew Woehlke > wrote: > > I doubt these are used enough to be worth bothering, or I'd be tempted > to add: > > > Supposedly they=E2=80=99re useful to programmers without certain characte= rs in=20 > their keyboard layouts. They are essentially inherited from C .= If=20 > the alternative spellings were used as intended in C++, such code would b= e=20 > written with rvalue references declared by =E2=80=9Cand,=E2=80=9D lvalue = references by =E2=80=9C > bitand,=E2=80=9D and destructors by =E2=80=9Ccompl.=E2=80=9D > > They=E2=80=99re cute, but not a serious alternative style. > > As for parity with Python, note that the ! operator has high syntactic=20 > precedence, so you need to parenthesize the expression unless it=E2=80=99= s more=20 > than e.g. a simple identifier or function call. Negated if expressions=20 > were proposed in Urbana (IIRC) and there was little interest. > --=20 ---=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposa= ls/. ------=_Part_1956_571997731.1434881810383 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
As an anecdote: I had `not`, `and` and `or` instead of `!`= , `&&` and `||` as a part of style guide at one of the previous job= s, and we did have all the characters on our keyboards.
At first they s= eemed strange, but they indeed were more visible/more readable/less noisy t= han their symbolic counterparts, especially `not`.

On Sunday, June 2= 1, 2015 at 5:12:01 AM UTC+3, David Krauss wrote:

On 2015=E2=80=9306=E2=80=9320, at 2:15 AM, Matthew Woehl= ke <mwoehlk...@gma= il.com> wrote:

I doubt these are used enough to be worth bothering, or I'd be = tempted
to add:

Supposedly = they=E2=80=99re useful to programmers without certain characters in their k= eyboard layouts. They are essentially inherited from C <iso646.h>. If the alternative spellings were used as = intended in C++, such code would be written with rvalue references declared= by =E2=80=9Cand,=E2=80=9D lvalue references = by =E2=80=9Cbitand,=E2=80=9D and destructors = by =E2=80=9Ccompl.=E2=80=9D

They=E2=80=99re cute, but not a serious alternative style.

As for parity with Python, note that the ! operator has high syntactic precedence, so you need to paren= thesize the expression unless it=E2=80=99s more than e.g. a simple identifi= er or function call. Negated if expressi= ons were proposed in Urbana (IIRC) and there was little interest.

--

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