220 14979 <1beba9b1-2998-4ae1-9413-9f025d120770@isocpp.org> article Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: german.gomez@personifyinc.com Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: Safer C++: never allow implicitly uninitialized variables? Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 18:46:59 -0800 (PST) Lines: 98 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: <1beba9b1-2998-4ae1-9413-9f025d120770@isocpp.org> References: <4720a9a6-24d5-4488-a229-2bdf2433fa03@isocpp.org> <991368986-1417873941-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-220778910-@b2.c5.bise6.blackberry> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_5318_1757778514.1418266019863" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1418266028 31088 80.91.229.3 (11 Dec 2014 02:47:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 02:47:08 +0000 (UTC) Cc: danielgutson@gmail.com To: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBDWYPV7DUIFRBJELUSSAKGQEKPG6ZIA@isocpp.org Thu Dec 11 03:47:02 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-oi0-f70.google.com ([209.85.218.70]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XytmP-00028k-O0 for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 03:47:01 +0100 Original-Received: by mail-oi0-f70.google.com with SMTP id a141sf16472884oig.9 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2014 18:47:01 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to :references:subject:mime-version:content-type:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=/8HreG/KwVIbtBUrvjgVLBXHfgDH+jKaRQokFtjCofA=; b=JrmiDeEz+NknSWcP23OTUa9A0KhplUTYDK90OXKINnsxgtU8W5SmA9MpigFMf+IrtU UVmTi/2n4M9O7CPDH6efpy3tM47vE/lHsB51wzllEA+Omig3juBKBGrrTJCbgvg+3NF0 wsADf8+wMBedKFXRV67WzXaKEs+c9HHjaSY/4R7ZXwbJzGrcxCgp3uu+pzy/9TK7+zsZ NDepilAaWyIjO1IHq+EoNABJiHQb6VjxJlHStMK2XGbCJrZUunKV5qegR9ui6FP6C1Ln Ukrd3YISIXycFWItpo5zkW7CkA8AhjNfB8lBjWFxT3EVsB6JqY3y6Jxz9jQw2KWiHK/W Av6w== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmoe9lHUtNEthlPX1BtHpW1l0R86DVDD2/mUfUDQUsd2pAsurl9QS+74nY1wzNPdrrKLA8z X-Received: by 10.182.85.170 with SMTP id i10mr7051934obz.36.1418266021059; Wed, 10 Dec 2014 18:47:01 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 10.50.110.5 with SMTP id hw5ls1696543igb.12.canary; Wed, 10 Dec 2014 18:47:00 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.50.110.42 with SMTP id hx10mr236756igb.16.1418266020603; Wed, 10 Dec 2014 18:47:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <991368986-1417873941-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-220778910-@b2.c5.bise6.blackberry> X-Original-Sender: german.gomez@personifyinc.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:14979 Archived-At: ------=_Part_5318_1757778514.1418266019863 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_5319_50953019.1418266019864" ------=_Part_5319_50953019.1418266019864 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Saturday, December 6, 2014 8:52:25 PM UTC+7, dgutson wrote: > > By initializing variables with an arbitrary (initial) value (which may not > make sense in the semantic of your application), you are only adding > performance overhead, > No, you are not adding ONLY performance overhead, you are adding safety and giving the user the choice to escape from that perf overhead if needed, as before. Exactly the same D lang does. > whereas usage of uninitialized variables can already be detected in most > cases by stating checking of most toolchains/static detection tools. > This is by QoI, it is not a standard guarantee. > If your compiler doesn't warn you about such cases, ask your compiler > vendor rather to try to change the std affecting the rest of people who > uses modern compilers or checkers. > I suggest you to use lint-like tools and enable all the warnings of your > compiler. > Well, I think you are missing my point. I know of all of this. One of the driving principles of the committee is to make the language easier to use for novices. I think to correct this could make it easier to use and more difficult to misuse, IMO. -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposals/. ------=_Part_5319_50953019.1418266019864 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Saturday, December 6, 2014 8:52:25 PM UTC+7, dg= utson wrote:
By initializi= ng variables with an arbitrary (initial) value (which may not make sense in= the semantic of your application), you are only adding performance overhea= d,

 No, you are not adding ONLY= performance overhead, you are adding safety and giving the user the choice= to escape from that perf overhead if needed, as before. Exactly the same D= lang does.
 
whereas usage of uninitialized variables can already be detected= in most cases by stating checking of most toolchains/static detection tool= s.

This is by QoI, it is not a st= andard guarantee.
 
If your compiler doesn't warn you about such cases, ask your= compiler vendor rather to try to change the std affecting the rest of peop= le who uses modern compilers or checkers.
I suggest you to use lint-like= tools and enable all the warnings of your compiler.
=

 Well, I think you are missing my point. I know of= all of this.

One of the driving principles of the= committee is to make the language easier to use for novices. I think to co= rrect this could make it easier to use and more difficult to misuse, IMO.
 

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposa= ls+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
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