220 14851 article Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Andrew Tomazos Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: Re: Templetized namespaces Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 22:54:28 +0100 Lines: 369 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: References: <4cfc2db6-97da-4750-9296-5aaaa3475014@isocpp.org> <14ff5bcb-5efb-46da-9b86-54382363c3b0@isocpp.org> <26265dc3-7d0d-44c1-aa15-69d16f1a6477@isocpp.org> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0160b7cc491026050956e332 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417643681 17810 80.91.229.3 (3 Dec 2014 21:54:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 21:54:41 +0000 (UTC) Cc: contact@ncomputers.org To: "std-proposals@isocpp.org" Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBD5KHQXXWYPRBFMN72RQKGQEIFX2KWQ@isocpp.org Wed Dec 03 22:54:36 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-ee0-f69.google.com ([74.125.83.69]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XwHsU-000878-TK for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Wed, 03 Dec 2014 22:54:31 +0100 Original-Received: by mail-ee0-f69.google.com with SMTP id d49sf10265634eek.4 for ; Wed, 03 Dec 2014 13:54:30 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; bh=Zm0oqxHbWY4uUvjizZtRzvN796syqsZ/tw0eJFxKyes=; b=mInTryaqWUBJIcTv8lo6ke9sv1qmowC6WJBdynrjJIyidjYqQlCIiG6nOCzHSaphNn h7ZlptJQICCtiwsXpq/vGF0mq/8MMR2/aYY5NpQJDg75JTbKaurLOXUGAZ5qnDG2EAy+ NLjLEbdnNZ5voilqo/XsQ6ZrYmvqsdO/ttaYUjQ/Jt51Cgd7nV1r+WqzN6l9mf+16yZa KlOUuqaAkAH7Bs7pxiOYnqJ1o5y8Zpv/9hWlZSvJSBkLeMJJKjhSM+Y18wtSpXtAfzGd i68irQj87FP+CpIcR34YzxgtoxXdLvCTybeuuEnNnsL2OpfEolo7QpKpjCWRnS8qP/HM 017g== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn+89uspJZlvqACPzCNUNtsbV4Hd5heSSkqBin0tfQlcq1aaJKPcu0vDic2X8XlDOrArUca X-Received: by 10.112.138.234 with SMTP id qt10mr1545215lbb.4.1417643670574; Wed, 03 Dec 2014 13:54:30 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 10.152.23.71 with SMTP id k7ls196649laf.104.gmail; Wed, 03 Dec 2014 13:54:29 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.112.171.199 with SMTP id aw7mr6319136lbc.40.1417643668991; Wed, 03 Dec 2014 13:54:28 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from mail-la0-x22e.google.com (mail-la0-x22e.google.com. [2a00:1450:4010:c03::22e]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m4si24091345laa.107.2014.12.03.13.54.28 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 03 Dec 2014 13:54:28 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of andrewtomazos@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c03::22e as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4010:c03::22e; Original-Received: by mail-la0-f46.google.com with SMTP id q1so8567248lam.33 for ; Wed, 03 Dec 2014 13:54:28 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.152.28.131 with SMTP id b3mr6569048lah.12.1417643668605; Wed, 03 Dec 2014 13:54:28 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.25.211.16 with HTTP; Wed, 3 Dec 2014 13:54:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <26265dc3-7d0d-44c1-aa15-69d16f1a6477@isocpp.org> X-Original-Sender: andrewtomazos@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of andrewtomazos@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c03::22e as permitted sender) smtp.mail=andrewtomazos@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:14851 Archived-At: --089e0160b7cc491026050956e332 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Neither is pedanitpicated. On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 7:52 PM, wrote: > Templetized is not a word. > > > On Friday, October 24, 2014 10:59:20 AM UTC-5, con...@ncomputers.org > wrote: >> >> I think that templetized templates should be allowed using nested >> namespaces by classes, for example: >> >> template >> class A{ >> namespace B{ >> Typename Variable; >> } >> }; >> >> PF, ncomputers >> >> Am Freitag, 24. Oktober 2014 06:48:09 UTC-5 schrieb Klaim - Jo=C3=ABl La= motte: >>> >>> Sorry I didn't see your reply before. >>> >>> On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 1:52 AM, dgutson . wrote: >>> >>>> On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 9:47 AM, Klaim - Jo=C3=ABl Lamotte >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>>> I had the exact same ideas few months ago after finding myself doing >>>>> generic library which all types would depend on the same type, >>>>> and remarking how much duplication could be avoided if I was allowed >>>>> to specify that a whole bunch of types would automatically have an >>>>> additional template parameter implicitly. >>>>> >>>>> namespace blah< typename X > >>>>> { >>>>> class K {}; >>>>> template < class T > class U {}; >>>>> } >>>>> >>>>> would be translated to >>>>> >>>>> namespace blah >>>>> { >>>>> template< typename X > >>>>> class K {}; >>>>> template< typename X, class T > class U {}; >>>>> } >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> However, after weeks of thinking about this I concluded that: >>>>> >>>>> 1. namespace are not the appropriate construct for this, they really >>>>> are too different and not really encapsulating anything than names; >>>>> 2. there are a lot of potential issues related to the order of >>>>> template arguments; >>>>> >>>> >>>> Please elaborate about the last two points. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Basically, namespaces don't have a unique definition and are only >>> affecting naming. >>> Therefore, what would be better to template would be something like a >>> module or a class or a mixin (a class component). >>> >>> >>> >>>> 3. there is a potential issue for reading the code as you need to >>>>> see the namespace declaration before being able to follow the rest of= the >>>>> code. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I don't find this issue different than any other template declaration, >>>> for example a nested class of a template class. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Yes, it's a weak point but apparently some people have trouble with thi= s. >>> Not sure if it should be taken into account. >>> >>> >>>> What I mean here is basically the same argument that makes Clang >>>>> developers avoid anonymous namespaces. >>>>> >>>>> Also, I believe that the real thing I do want when I'm writing these >>>>> generic libraries is actually to generate a whole bunch of types, usi= ng >>>>> another type as argument of the process to generate the wanted types. >>>>> >>>> >>>> We agree on that. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Basically, I want one of the features that the Reflection group is >>>>> supposed to look for. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I'm working on statement-templates.googlecode.com but that's something >>>> I will post in this list later. >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Since that realization, I think that efforts should be put to have a >>>>> new reflection construct instead of making namespace do something too >>>>> different from it's initial use. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, sen= d >>>>> an email to std-proposal...@isocpp.org. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to std-pr...@isocpp.org. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std- >>>>> proposals/. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Who=E2=80=99s got the sweetest disposition? >>>> One guess, that=E2=80=99s who? >>>> Who=E2=80=99d never, ever start an argument? >>>> Who never shows a bit of temperament? >>>> Who's never wrong but always right? >>>> Who'd never dream of starting a fight? >>>> Who get stuck with all the bad luck? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to std-proposal...@isocpp.org. >>>> To post to this group, send email to std-pr...@isocpp.org. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std- >>>> proposals/. >>>> >>> >>> -- > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. > To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. > Visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposals/. > --=20 ---=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposa= ls/. --089e0160b7cc491026050956e332 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Neither is pedanitpicated.

On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 7:52 PM, <rjw= hitt2001@gmail.com> wrote:
= Templetized is not a word.=C2=A0

On Friday, October 24, 2014 10:59:20 AM UTC-5, con...@ncomputers.org wrote:
I think that templetized = templates should be allowed using nested namespaces by classes, for example= :

template= <typename Typename>
class A{
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 namespace B{
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Typename Variable;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <= /span>}
};

PF, ncomputers

Am Freitag, 24. Oktober 201= 4 06:48:09 UTC-5 schrieb Klaim - Jo=C3=ABl Lamotte:
Sorry I didn't see your reply before.<= br>

On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 1:52 AM, dgu= tson . <daniel...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 9:47 AM, Klaim - Jo=C3=ABl Lamotte <mjk...@gmail.com> wrote:
I had the exact same ideas few month= s ago after finding myself doing generic library which all types would depe= nd on the same type,
and remarking how much duplication could be avoided if I was allowed t= o specify that a whole bunch of types would automatically have an additiona= l template parameter implicitly.

namespace blah< typename X >
{
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0class K {};
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0template &l= t; class T > class U {};
}

would be translated to=C2=A0

=
namespace blah
{
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 template< typename X >
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 class K {};
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 template< typename X, class T &g= t; class U {};
}


However, after weeks of thinking = about this I concluded that:

=C2=A01. namespace are not the appropriate construct for this, they really = are too different and not really encapsulating anything than names;
=C2=A02. there are a lot of potential issues related to the order of tem= plate arguments;

Please elaborate about the la= st two points.
=C2=A0

Basically, namespaces don't have a unique def= inition and are only affecting naming.
Therefore, what would be b= etter to template would be something like a module or a class or a mixin (a= class component).

=C2=A0
=C2=A03. there is a potential issue for reading the code as you need t= o see the namespace declaration before being able to follow the rest of the= code.

I don't find = this issue different than any other template declaration, for example a nes= ted class of a template class.
=C2=A0

= Yes, it's a weak point but apparently some people have trouble with thi= s.
Not sure if it should be taken into account.
=C2=A0<= /div>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= What I mean here is basically the same argument that makes Clang developers= avoid anonymous namespaces.

Also, I believe that the real thing I do want when I= 9;m writing these generic libraries is actually to generate a whole bunch o= f types, using another type as argument of the process to generate the want= ed types.

We agree on that.
=
=C2=A0
Basically, I want one of the features that the Reflection group is sup= posed to look for.

I'= ;m working on=C2=A0statement-templates.googlecode.com but that'= s something I will post in this list later.
=C2=A0

Since that realization, I think that efforts should be put to have a n= ew reflection construct instead of making namespace do something too differ= ent from it's initial use.



--
=C2=A0
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposal...@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-pr...@isocpp.org.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.= org/group/std-proposals/.



=
--
Who=E2=80=99s got the sweetest disposition?
One guess, that= =E2=80=99s who?
Who=E2=80=99d never, ever start an argument?
Who neve= r shows a bit of temperament?
Who's never wrong but always right? Who'd never dream of starting a fight?
Who get stuck with all the ba= d luck?=20

--
=C2=A0
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposal...@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-pr...@isocpp.org.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.= org/group/std-proposals/.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/gro= up/std-proposals/.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposa= ls+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposals/<= /a>.
--089e0160b7cc491026050956e332-- .