220 14850 <26265dc3-7d0d-44c1-aa15-69d16f1a6477@isocpp.org> article Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: rjwhitt2001@gmail.com Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: Re: Templetized namespaces Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 10:52:30 -0800 (PST) Lines: 353 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: <26265dc3-7d0d-44c1-aa15-69d16f1a6477@isocpp.org> References: <4cfc2db6-97da-4750-9296-5aaaa3475014@isocpp.org> <14ff5bcb-5efb-46da-9b86-54382363c3b0@isocpp.org> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_39_1844636445.1417632750378" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417632760 29126 80.91.229.3 (3 Dec 2014 18:52:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 18:52:40 +0000 (UTC) Cc: contact@ncomputers.org To: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBDNOHG6LSUNRB35X7WRQKGQE2TRWKDY@isocpp.org Wed Dec 03 19:52:35 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-ig0-f199.google.com ([209.85.213.199]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XwF2P-0005iU-3j for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Wed, 03 Dec 2014 19:52:33 +0100 Original-Received: by mail-ig0-f199.google.com with SMTP id hl2sf73591603igb.10 for ; Wed, 03 Dec 2014 10:52:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:content-type:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence :mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=/ojCAz4uWwJX1weEgbIMdPcNpGdtwA+Wy0d5Y5waEBY=; b=gOj1BZz/ETSq1x4zdODNLuXwNtXgTDPhq+L92pGIBoZOGd3Xl2I8xJmydO1MhMMX8S eJAzJDc2rYF7e+EJc3iMVjn0gWP67EKrLjWuBhzVmp5NF4ADaQPxvh8Lv+uOzII7hwOD SHQT3UuE+s42+kgNBL1Ugv1KulrSq89dGJIxvoaiyixFmIrF9T0wkcY/m9Impne3pZns sRBul+OIu6/Thna2q5wq9ANzKLvAX0mjK9J9VotQQbNKCSIVIVGX0huSdx84G7TnOqez o96KMzeuwUkTpHIgExPpsSlOgEMBN9xeb7ao3AqFfu71YBjMyCM1qCt+uqvFLay4Gdeq wjQg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to :references:subject:mime-version:content-type:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=/ojCAz4uWwJX1weEgbIMdPcNpGdtwA+Wy0d5Y5waEBY=; b=A6U4CcSbnNaIgxGlRGZOmPQ7t+Qc16gZGm/jnz7JeNiy5mpjmuaA93I0h2UX+TDxdG iTfM56+bbYbBQCNUN+9yo9GPXLNhlSQJUF0LcGNd7wV4SPfXGalQa43Paz9qkppB0B0h h4EeD6NW9r7qcxVLOcYBlsT9Y0U1WYeqRFAo+HEfrdGxRdIs3QhxuaemV82B9cIY2knb Ix7lMdNITl3qbopFQRr2LL/QbY4XChFCYELG7NPfZgGbQLSZWQvYV86NiEKriRPMGQxZ 5TLZjm5BWmcOxjcrNnLfnRSLNczNrdzD64ZmFZeboX+kdKN56KL0rs4iubbUscDonqlO PARw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmSK3vWxclFlPfd/ShGGDuU3U6M55+X2J3rHuDucU4OL8gT8i0w0GJ6g/ColRCSG5XJv+gh X-Received: by 10.42.203.136 with SMTP id fi8mr9666775icb.18.1417632752179; Wed, 03 Dec 2014 10:52:32 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 10.182.79.66 with SMTP id h2ls326530obx.5.gmail; Wed, 03 Dec 2014 10:52:31 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.182.94.206 with SMTP id de14mr28036obb.23.1417632751308; Wed, 03 Dec 2014 10:52:31 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <14ff5bcb-5efb-46da-9b86-54382363c3b0@isocpp.org> X-Original-Sender: rjwhitt2001@gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:14850 Archived-At: ------=_Part_39_1844636445.1417632750378 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_40_1940408946.1417632750380" ------=_Part_40_1940408946.1417632750380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Templetized is not a word.=20 On Friday, October 24, 2014 10:59:20 AM UTC-5, con...@ncomputers.org wrote: > > I think that templetized templates should be allowed using nested=20 > namespaces by classes, for example: > > template > class A{ > namespace B{ > Typename Variable; > } > }; > > PF, ncomputers > > Am Freitag, 24. Oktober 2014 06:48:09 UTC-5 schrieb Klaim - Jo=C3=ABl Lam= otte: >> >> Sorry I didn't see your reply before. >> >> On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 1:52 AM, dgutson . wrote: >> >>> On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 9:47 AM, Klaim - Jo=C3=ABl Lamotte =20 >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I had the exact same ideas few months ago after finding myself doing= =20 >>>> generic library which all types would depend on the same type, >>>> and remarking how much duplication could be avoided if I was allowed t= o=20 >>>> specify that a whole bunch of types would automatically have an additi= onal=20 >>>> template parameter implicitly. >>>> >>>> namespace blah< typename X > >>>> { >>>> class K {}; >>>> template < class T > class U {}; >>>> } >>>> >>>> would be translated to=20 >>>> >>>> namespace blah >>>> { >>>> template< typename X > >>>> class K {}; >>>> template< typename X, class T > class U {}; >>>> } >>>> >>>> >>>> However, after weeks of thinking about this I concluded that: >>>> >>>> 1. namespace are not the appropriate construct for this, they really= =20 >>>> are too different and not really encapsulating anything than names; >>>> 2. there are a lot of potential issues related to the order of=20 >>>> template arguments; >>>> >>> >>> Please elaborate about the last two points. >>> =20 >>> >> >> Basically, namespaces don't have a unique definition and are only=20 >> affecting naming. >> Therefore, what would be better to template would be something like a=20 >> module or a class or a mixin (a class component). >> >> =20 >> >>> 3. there is a potential issue for reading the code as you need to see= =20 >>>> the namespace declaration before being able to follow the rest of the = code. >>>> >>> >>> I don't find this issue different than any other template declaration,= =20 >>> for example a nested class of a template class. >>> =20 >>> >> >> Yes, it's a weak point but apparently some people have trouble with this= .. >> Not sure if it should be taken into account. >> =20 >> >>> What I mean here is basically the same argument that makes Clang= =20 >>>> developers avoid anonymous namespaces. >>>> >>>> Also, I believe that the real thing I do want when I'm writing these= =20 >>>> generic libraries is actually to generate a whole bunch of types, usin= g=20 >>>> another type as argument of the process to generate the wanted types. >>>> >>> >>> We agree on that. >>> =20 >>> >>>> Basically, I want one of the features that the Reflection group is=20 >>>> supposed to look for. >>>> >>> >>> I'm working on statement-templates.googlecode.com but that's something= =20 >>> I will post in this list later. >>> =20 >>> >>>> >>>> Since that realization, I think that efforts should be put to have a= =20 >>>> new reflection construct instead of making namespace do something too= =20 >>>> different from it's initial use. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --=20 >>>> =20 >>>> ---=20 >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google=20 >>>> Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send= =20 >>>> an email to std-proposal...@isocpp.org. >>>> To post to this group, send email to std-pr...@isocpp.org. >>>> Visit this group at=20 >>>> http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposals/. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --=20 >>> Who=E2=80=99s got the sweetest disposition? >>> One guess, that=E2=80=99s who? >>> Who=E2=80=99d never, ever start an argument? >>> Who never shows a bit of temperament? >>> Who's never wrong but always right? >>> Who'd never dream of starting a fight? >>> Who get stuck with all the bad luck?=20 >>> >>> --=20 >>> =20 >>> ---=20 >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google=20 >>> Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send= =20 >>> an email to std-proposal...@isocpp.org. >>> To post to this group, send email to std-pr...@isocpp.org. >>> Visit this group at=20 >>> http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposals/. >>> >> >> --=20 ---=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposa= ls/. ------=_Part_40_1940408946.1417632750380 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Templetized is not a word. 

On Friday, October 24, 2014 10:59:2= 0 AM UTC-5, con...@ncomputers.org wrote:
I think that templetized templates should be all= owed using nested namespaces by classes, for example:

template<typename Typename>
class A{
    na= mespace B{
        Typename Variable;
    }
};
PF, ncomputers

Am Freitag, 24. Oktober 2014 06:48:09 UTC-5 schrieb= Klaim - Jo=C3=ABl Lamotte:
Sorry I didn't see your reply before.

On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 1:52 AM, dgutson . <= ;daniel...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Jan 22,= 2014 at 9:47 AM, Klaim - Jo=C3=ABl Lamotte <mjk...= @gmail.com> wrote:
I had the exact same ideas few month= s ago after finding myself doing generic library which all types would depe= nd on the same type,
and remarking how much duplication could be avoided if I was allowed t= o specify that a whole bunch of types would automatically have an additiona= l template parameter implicitly.

namespace blah< typename X >
{
     class K {};
     template &l= t; class T > class U {};
}

would be translated to 

=
namespace blah
{
    template< typename X >
  &nb= sp; class K {};
    template< typename X, class T &g= t; class U {};
}


However, after weeks of thinking = about this I concluded that:

 1. namespace are not the appropriate construct for this, they really = are too different and not really encapsulating anything than names;
 2. there are a lot of potential issues related to the order of tem= plate arguments;

Please elaborate about the la= st two points.
 

Basically, namespaces don't have a unique definit= ion and are only affecting naming.
Therefore, what would be bette= r to template would be something like a module or a class or a mixin (a cla= ss component).

 
 3. there is a potential issue for reading the code as you need t= o see the namespace declaration before being able to follow the rest of the= code.

I don't find this= issue different than any other template declaration, for example a nested = class of a template class.
 

= Yes, it's a weak point but apparently some people have trouble with this.
Not sure if it should be taken into account.
 
     What= I mean here is basically the same argument that makes Clang developers avo= id anonymous namespaces.

Also, I believe that the real thing I do want when I'm = writing these generic libraries is actually to generate a whole bunch of ty= pes, using another type as argument of the process to generate the wanted t= ypes.

We agree on that.
=
 
Basically, I want one of the features that the Reflection group is sup= posed to look for.

I'm w= orking on statement-templates.googlecode.com but= that's something I will post in this list later.
 

Since that realization, I think that efforts should be put to have a n= ew reflection construct instead of making namespace do something too differ= ent from it's initial use.



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Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposal= s/.



=
--
Who=E2=80=99s got the sweetest disposition?
One guess, that= =E2=80=99s who?
Who=E2=80=99d never, ever start an argument?
Who neve= r shows a bit of temperament?
Who's never wrong but always right?
Who'd never dream of starting a fight?
Who get stuck with all the bad lu= ck?=20

--
 
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposal...@isocpp.org.
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Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposal= s/.

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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposa= ls+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
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