220 11866 <9e520ed7-b2d4-420e-98c0-e366e8078ca4@isocpp.org> article Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: tomaszkam@gmail.com Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: N4078: Rvalue reference overloads for value() method returns object by value Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 03:38:04 -0700 (PDT) Lines: 137 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: <9e520ed7-b2d4-420e-98c0-e366e8078ca4@isocpp.org> References: <4DA018C3-2327-4F55-B7F8-7988EC7B789A@gmail.com> <1a858a77-310b-4591-aaf5-960c40d9f5fc@isocpp.org> <66AF41C1-CB37-4311-98EA-D47DBC6068DC@gmail.com> <66c38b61-7a95-4ace-b34f-2346bb334fb9@isocpp.org> <6F4B3C72-9962-48DC-8527-0C89EA1B9710@gmail.com> <35873CE5-ED8C-4C03-A6A1-E4132DECD91F@gmail.com> <335948E6-8140-4673-B958-930356A52070@gmail.com> <76ACA175-5A44-4BE8-B49F-BAC6DA65E6B1@gmail.com> <4D3852AD-1AEB-44BA-941C-D645BAD19405@gmail.com> <6a4b6425-1167-40c1-acd8-3945c8cd4c74@isocpp.org> <13DD0D7A-A146-4667-9F30-6FB3739CDBE0@gmail.com> <6B925FF7-2940-44C7-BF1D-13209A703BA2@gmail.com> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_199_12578268.1405075084591" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1405075104 20369 80.91.229.3 (11 Jul 2014 10:38:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 10:38:24 +0000 (UTC) To: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBDNPVXXG6IGBBDP572OQKGQEPI4CFLY@isocpp.org Fri Jul 11 12:38:13 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-oa0-f70.google.com ([209.85.219.70]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1X5YDO-0006it-U9 for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Fri, 11 Jul 2014 12:38:07 +0200 Original-Received: by mail-oa0-f70.google.com with SMTP id o6sf4483433oag.1 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2014 03:38:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=dmGE3Y8ZxPEzUSY6E4R52nnO2+KLyQhuPMbzRJWS72U=; b=ZPDUGtpwrivSQCiMVLqhQ3Bj8Fp4Cl1gPgNYs+iCiJVOmK/eImK0NqAKjfuklottNv X8krNwgVQW0G5G/lCo/w6f/izMKj8tm0L8P69t1b7sC8AEcfHC7VEQluP9yKVA7kXSAA gF5GtWIUGqa91VW8V1cOw9HD2zf6eDw0PmjaBFjAgRDNnXOBNi4YJ2KMz+4GtlcbK+AJ YDiSwrJ2ujpPAve9Fxu1OjSLx751qDmbwIWl7V4/BAZ9bpAnwbWldeiwPBUWikKeJYBq ai0V3yg+NZGmgFKE2qjhy+d4hkzQJ0jm69pTL/sixDSzFVtHoVoQTTGZ6g6an7Z0VxrT ppEA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references :subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence :mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=dmGE3Y8ZxPEzUSY6E4R52nnO2+KLyQhuPMbzRJWS72U=; b=cKEOkWCijl3m8iyhJlY7MUYQMRVC0EoSPQAWKJ+zp69vgms/yPo6bfemLGC4VNcjDf SKij22+ZroSo5OHl/PT+paXR4SZei38Suo1YmwO6mj/0JiXMpLSTzMNz9dPIdFlkS3EZ UySa9aSI9om0UB6SX6rFFTGVe8kAMPYupF1GjZiKyTL605neA/C2cTEkkatHb0+gpEKK 0c6VJoRkQgLhyHqL+iAX3RHiA2KCD/CU9DvAmP5eq+xurj/25qn4Y0jIcn4W+EzmXfAV J0QWr1CUyHh3x7srVzZepgDvhebKiZvVKzqJ4unEeqG74HhO1n1UnjChhJv1GDzUFK+n EZFA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkWAyX8T68bmJlBOwj2i5uUVb5rTv+0L4cKBk/qyMvZoGKZ9QhSDxwPpnVsbQ9vxqV3z8WN X-Received: by 10.43.98.71 with SMTP id cn7mr1526624icc.14.1405075085870; Fri, 11 Jul 2014 03:38:05 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 10.182.129.164 with SMTP id nx4ls290482obb.88.gmail; Fri, 11 Jul 2014 03:38:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.186.34 with SMTP id fh2mr13001obc.21.1405075085121; Fri, 11 Jul 2014 03:38:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: tomaszkam@gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:11866 Archived-At: ------=_Part_199_12578268.1405075084591 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable W dniu pi=C4=85tek, 11 lipca 2014 12:32:53 UTC+2 u=C5=BCytkownik Ville Vout= ilainen=20 napisa=C5=82: > > On 11 July 2014 13:21, David Krauss >=20 > wrote:=20 > > Well, at least we see eye-to-eye. I hope you=E2=80=99re right about the= TS not=20 > > carrying a lock-in effect. The only responsible way to resolve this=20 > dilemma=20 > > for the entire library is with thorough review in a proper context.=20 > > > I think we are more or less in agreement that a situation where=20 > rvalue-ref-qualified=20 > functions, if any, return either T&& all-over-the-place or T=20 > all-over-the-place is not=20 > very good; there are very reasonable uses for both, and it would be decen= t=20 > to provide both choices somehow. With the current trend, where no other= =20 > library=20 > facility chooses safety-for-auto&&-locals, and all of them go for=20 > performance,=20 > optional fits into the picture better if it chooses performance over=20 > safety-for-auto&&-locals.=20 > > But I trying to point that safety-for-auto&&-locals is not reallly=20 achiveable. Please remember the consequences of making auto&& s =3D f().m works or that we have expression templates and they won't be gone. And I thinl that "auto&&" was promotted to being silver-bullet for generic programing, when it actually cannot be. =20 > Solving the dilemma library-wide would indeed require a thorough=20 > review, but that's=20 > something that should be dealt with when/if a new version of the=20 > standard library emerges.=20 > There's been some talk about that, incl. specifying a conceptified and=20 > potentially=20 > range-supporting library, but as things stand, the Fundamentals v1=20 > needs to fit in=20 > the larger picture of the existing library, as far as possible.=20 > > Just my 0.02 euros, of course.=20 > --=20 ---=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposa= ls/. ------=_Part_199_12578268.1405075084591 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


W dniu pi=C4=85tek, 11 lipca 2014 12:32:53 UTC+2 u= =C5=BCytkownik Ville Voutilainen napisa=C5=82:
On 11 July 2014 13:21, David Krauss <pot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, at least we see eye-to-eye. I hope you=E2=80=99re right abou= t the TS not
> carrying a lock-in effect. The only responsible way to resolve thi= s dilemma
> for the entire library is with thorough review in a proper context= ..


I think we are more or less in agreement that a situation where
rvalue-ref-qualified
functions, if any, return either T&& all-over-the-place or T
all-over-the-place is not
very good; there are very reasonable uses for both, and it would be dec= ent
to provide both choices somehow. With the current trend, where no other= library
facility chooses safety-for-auto&&-locals, and all of them go f= or performance,
optional fits into the picture better if it chooses performance over
safety-for-auto&&-locals.

But I trying to point that safety-for-auto&&-= locals is not reallly achiveable.
Please remember the consequences of ma= king auto&& s =3D f().m works
or that we have expression templat= es and they won't be gone.

And I thinl that "auto&&" was pro= motted to being silver-bullet for
generic programing, when it actually c= annot be.

 
S= olving the dilemma library-wide would indeed require a thorough
review, but that's
something that should be dealt with when/if a new version of the
standard library emerges.
There's been some talk about that, incl. specifying a conceptified and
potentially
range-supporting library, but as things stand, the Fundamentals v1
needs to fit in
the larger picture of the existing library, as far as possible.

Just my 0.02 euros, of course.

--

---
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposa= ls+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
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