220 11823 <4D3852AD-1AEB-44BA-941C-D645BAD19405@gmail.com> article Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Krauss Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: N4078: Rvalue reference overloads for value() method returns object by value Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 06:59:07 +0800 Lines: 115 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: <4D3852AD-1AEB-44BA-941C-D645BAD19405@gmail.com> References: <4DA018C3-2327-4F55-B7F8-7988EC7B789A@gmail.com> <1a858a77-310b-4591-aaf5-960c40d9f5fc@isocpp.org> <66AF41C1-CB37-4311-98EA-D47DBC6068DC@gmail.com> <66c38b61-7a95-4ace-b34f-2346bb334fb9@isocpp.org> <6F4B3C72-9962-48DC-8527-0C89EA1B9710@gmail.com> <35873CE5-ED8C-4C03-A6A1-E4132DECD91F@gmail.com> <335948E6-8140-4673-B958-930356A52070@gmail.com> <76ACA175-5A44-4BE8-B49F-BAC6DA65E6B1@gmail.com> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_57B4A170-AC9F-4C9D-83D4-7A7BE2B7FBBF" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1405033161 22028 80.91.229.3 (10 Jul 2014 22:59:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 22:59:21 +0000 (UTC) To: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBCW25A7E3QCRBQFV7SOQKGQE5WEDPBY@isocpp.org Fri Jul 11 00:59:14 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-pd0-f199.google.com ([209.85.192.199]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1X5NJ3-0007GI-IB for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Fri, 11 Jul 2014 00:59:13 +0200 Original-Received: by mail-pd0-f199.google.com with SMTP id r10sf1728251pdi.6 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 15:59:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :references:to:in-reply-to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=VAxMButlYIoYmSGeHnd4t8N122EBg2pYVpZXYcllYaU=; b=Vrlf+KYsy50A921EuHTd1XzJeu5jGWO+THvlTyJoUteft9CKOl4TeMVzA89c/VEYIH ftnRTBmSeorTMHZvjFaKQ6D39gtFYaV1h90eetQImOl/WWW0xjJCfme92qH0nR6B03nU VEA1DqzX61sJRBIKpts43Cjt8mC4jgTtAqjmF2oRhq76fi2kJcSUB+lJPh3YDNmxaIRY oOgZS742lt/lELzYdozSUkcaQRvpIYWA9gDOunOSPDdSAjd+Qj1JnGr4eBYKYF+vdJy0 KerqCuDDeeTHJzFsq3LF/Iljzo1htZt2H3Vx2SIgomeORWV5fpquZT8ovYrIAu6qXnw/ PVvw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmi3TEKq1gZviZeqUbsVXHR5E3uH4BlE3XLdw5lJ5xb4WQHv4ZDZ39yNlZ9bLf8r9iZtwDz X-Received: by 10.66.158.193 with SMTP id ww1mr24668510pab.12.1405033152488; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 15:59:12 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 10.50.254.161 with SMTP id aj1ls22028igd.36.canary; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 15:59:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.12.38 with SMTP id v6mr25341583igb.29.1405033151717; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 15:59:11 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from mail-ie0-x22a.google.com (mail-ie0-x22a.google.com [2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22a]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id jf4si102115igb.6.2014.07.10.15.59.11 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 10 Jul 2014 15:59:11 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of potswa@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22a as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22a; Original-Received: by mail-ie0-f170.google.com with SMTP id lx4so248342iec.29 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 15:59:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.43.179.73 with SMTP id oz9mr659351icc.18.1405033151545; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 15:59:11 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [172.20.10.2] ([121.54.54.43]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id aw9sm193091igc.9.2014.07.10.15.59.09 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 10 Jul 2014 15:59:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Original-Sender: potswa@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of potswa@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22a as permitted sender) smtp.mail=potswa@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:11823 Archived-At: --Apple-Mail=_57B4A170-AC9F-4C9D-83D4-7A7BE2B7FBBF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On 2014-07-11, at 6:19 AM, Ville Voutilainen = wrote: > On 11 July 2014 01:01, David Krauss wrote: >> What I meant is to return T const &, as in N3966, which precedes N4078. = The changelog in N4078 is wrong... as I said, churn. >=20 > T const &? So we could never move? Sorry, first thing in the morning. Roll back to N3966, the preceding regist= ered-paper revision. It has two value() overloads, just like container and = smart pointer accessors. > Yes, the authors can always just drop the whole proposal if they don't > like the modifications > the committee demands. Or they can try to cope with the modifications. Did you try suggesting to save the modification for later, that more experi= ence would be useful? > The original design of the rvalue-ref-qualified overloads, sure. That's not how software features work. A reasonable definition for "the ori= ginal design" would be boost::optional, which is in popular use. (It's unfo= rtunate that Boost is not helping to prototype TS1, I guess it's ironically= become too resistant to change.) >> Yeah right. The rest of the library can just arbitrarily decide to be in= compatible. >=20 > Indeed it can. Quoting the other guy in this debate: > But having it in the optional will create and existing practice will m= ake it easier to get the proposal that r-value overloads for other STL cont= ainer to get accepted. And maybe then we would have a full implementation o= f this pattern in library. But without stepping stone like optional it woul= d be nearly impossible. In American football (and politics), this is called an "end run." --=20 ---=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposa= ls/. --Apple-Mail=_57B4A170-AC9F-4C9D-83D4-7A7BE2B7FBBF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
On 2014&= ndash;07–11, at 6:19 AM, Ville Voutilainen <ville.voutilainen@gmail.com> wrote:
On 11 July = 2014 01:01, David Krauss <potswa@gma= il.com> wrote:
What I meant is to retur= n T const &, as in N3966, which precedes N4078. The changelog in N4078 = is wrong... as I said, churn.

T const &? So we coul= d never move?

Sorry, first thing in the= morning. Roll back to N3966, the preceding registered-paper revision. It h= as two value() overloads, just like container and smart pointer accessors.<= /div>
Yes, the authors can always just drop th= e whole proposal if they don't
like the modifications
the committee d= emands. Or they can try to cope with the modifications.

Did you try suggesting to save the modification for later,= that more experience would be useful?

T= he original design of the rvalue-ref-qualified overloads, sure.

That’s not how software features work. A reasona= ble definition for “the original design” would be boost::optional, which is in popular use. (It’s unfo= rtunate that Boost is not helping to prototype TS1, I guess it’s iron= ically become too resistant to change.)

=
Yeah right. The rest of the library can just arbi= trarily decide to be incompatible.

Indeed it can.

Quoting the other guy in this debate:
<= div>
But having it in the optional&= lt;T> will create and existing practice will make it easier to get the p= roposal that r-value overloads for other STL container to get accepted= .. And maybe then we would have a full implementation of this pattern i= n library. But without stepping stone like optional it would be nearly impo= ssible.

In American football (and politics), thi= s is called an “end run.”

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