220 11821 article Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ville Voutilainen Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: N4078: Rvalue reference overloads for value() method returns object by value Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 01:19:25 +0300 Lines: 45 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: References: <4DA018C3-2327-4F55-B7F8-7988EC7B789A@gmail.com> <1a858a77-310b-4591-aaf5-960c40d9f5fc@isocpp.org> <66AF41C1-CB37-4311-98EA-D47DBC6068DC@gmail.com> <66c38b61-7a95-4ace-b34f-2346bb334fb9@isocpp.org> <6F4B3C72-9962-48DC-8527-0C89EA1B9710@gmail.com> <35873CE5-ED8C-4C03-A6A1-E4132DECD91F@gmail.com> <335948E6-8140-4673-B958-930356A52070@gmail.com> <76ACA175-5A44-4BE8-B49F-BAC6DA65E6B1@gmail.com> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1405030778 27250 80.91.229.3 (10 Jul 2014 22:19:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 22:19:38 +0000 (UTC) To: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBC5JHI7A7ALRB3VC7SOQKGQEB4AP36I@isocpp.org Fri Jul 11 00:19:30 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-oa0-f69.google.com ([209.85.219.69]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1X5MgZ-0000oH-IX for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Fri, 11 Jul 2014 00:19:27 +0200 Original-Received: by mail-oa0-f69.google.com with SMTP id j17sf1241865oag.8 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 15:19:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=3e8Lm+J2ZMy17ynBmb4U+cY98v50/P4kNsAL0pUw4PY=; b=mbjg+3OPoXh2LYfvF1L4YAg3or15fFRPdlfVEXcLqtYuhIY11fiyu9kKqmkO4PAXhU 9vZUoh6E4yjG43C/XUelmtj+8mJvVDeahhp+zuYWEwcia7BJDwQj5X+/+m2KJsCkrOZ9 7vw2HdXmAXLYoAbW9kdbpxp37ycqz7x88mxe2XREr+aiqtm1Ag9wp+ycwFnvrXAbHLbD lQ9kT/+16aExRmVZ2UN01b+H2mkgroL8pq/kUM0b3NfB+lxyBt1YOLCMy+Uo8RpAI/hK dOH8486uDSBxpLvfQbLUY5m3czkinhBNVZDbmt4Z0Qk3jlXbiIGlAo6D7ykpWLN9xezt 0fIA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnbcMMGvxZUfBYhy4tkAOqd90Uiy0HUyV0aKSHDeb5Oi32IHRPCqdxyrujMuxZT95qGbXjz X-Received: by 10.50.109.131 with SMTP id hs3mr244136igb.8.1405030766673; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 15:19:26 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 10.140.104.17 with SMTP id z17ls222546qge.74.gmail; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 15:19:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.224.76.1 with SMTP id a1mr83699895qak.4.1405030765877; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 15:19:25 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from mail-qa0-x234.google.com (mail-qa0-x234.google.com [2607:f8b0:400d:c00::234]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id r6si670381qcd.22.2014.07.10.15.19.25 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 10 Jul 2014 15:19:25 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of ville.voutilainen@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c00::234 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400d:c00::234; Original-Received: by mail-qa0-f52.google.com with SMTP id j15so200579qaq.25 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 15:19:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.224.130.201 with SMTP id u9mr84650001qas.98.1405030765783; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 15:19:25 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.224.31.137 with HTTP; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 15:19:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <76ACA175-5A44-4BE8-B49F-BAC6DA65E6B1@gmail.com> X-Original-Sender: ville.voutilainen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of ville.voutilainen@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c00::234 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=ville.voutilainen@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:11821 Archived-At: On 11 July 2014 01:01, David Krauss wrote: >> That's what everybody else but you have been suggesting in this thread - >> make the signatures that were proposed to return T&& but changed to return T >> return T&& again. o_O > What I meant is to return T const &, as in N3966, which precedes N4078. The changelog in N4078 is wrong... as I said, churn. T const &? So we could never move? >>> Optional is attempting to be the most perfect proxy class ever designed, and >>> it's pushing the envelope in a way that fundamentally disagrees with >>> standardization. Simply put, it's churning too much. >> Mostly because people keep suggesting new churn that is in their opinion >> massively important. > So it's their fault? The authors are the ones responsible for the proposal and its evolutionary path, post-adoption. Yes, the authors can always just drop the whole proposal if they don't like the modifications the committee demands. Or they can try to cope with the modifications. >> This small rollback to the original design is not >> "too much churn", > Ohh, so the revision in between N3966 and N4078 is "the original design." The original design of the rvalue-ref-qualified overloads, sure. >> The rest of the library doesn't have to do anything. What a potential new >> and incompatible library does is another matter. > Yeah right. The rest of the library can just arbitrarily decide to be incompatible. Indeed it can. > It might be better to avoid arbitrariness in any part, and carefully think things through before a commitment is made on behalf of the whole C++ world, forever? Might be. I don't see what that's related to, so a "definitely tentatively maybe". -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposals/. .