220 11819 <76ACA175-5A44-4BE8-B49F-BAC6DA65E6B1@gmail.com> article Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Krauss Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: N4078: Rvalue reference overloads for value() method returns object by value Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 06:01:13 +0800 Lines: 45 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: <76ACA175-5A44-4BE8-B49F-BAC6DA65E6B1@gmail.com> References: <4DA018C3-2327-4F55-B7F8-7988EC7B789A@gmail.com> <1a858a77-310b-4591-aaf5-960c40d9f5fc@isocpp.org> <66AF41C1-CB37-4311-98EA-D47DBC6068DC@gmail.com> <66c38b61-7a95-4ace-b34f-2346bb334fb9@isocpp.org> <6F4B3C72-9962-48DC-8527-0C89EA1B9710@gmail.com> <35873CE5-ED8C-4C03-A6A1-E4132DECD91F@gmail.com> <335948E6-8140-4673-B958-930356A52070@gmail.com> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1405029691 15452 80.91.229.3 (10 Jul 2014 22:01:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 22:01:31 +0000 (UTC) To: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBCW25A7E3QCRBMU27SOQKGQER2H4YGQ@isocpp.org Fri Jul 11 00:01:24 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-qc0-f199.google.com ([209.85.216.199]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1X5MP5-0007v3-W9 for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Fri, 11 Jul 2014 00:01:24 +0200 Original-Received: by mail-qc0-f199.google.com with SMTP id c9sf888612qcz.6 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 15:01:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :message-id:references:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=D6vsXRdZDEzmExCStN20jWs22+aWYiHtPsqSM5MdWos=; b=RMj/403gpRM9g19ruP0AYBqDZQL8+5h+9decrpuwrSA1hhuXrMrnqKWMN4LreuzW0F UEjB3KBKYFRClht4NdMz7Gd1bKGdgzVWw8DkOGaZUeHtwXuFsq62vLr4l2mMzPZR54R4 8X7bjM0FlMW/q0OBn6nptlZWJwxu/p7qcQOes6petUtvRmW5VbZOezQE+2QrQoP0iiuV 8jPQZ6SMifpWHydh7+R1oyWTg16/ntAL9bdGVxHvKGrygE+rfWwO2vvb2gKH1B8byeHg sNBvdoWcqW9arp+gTWBxqb2BjygoL+O8Wc3odjX9S4Bl9m/R5uqZ3iDsdeih5oID/5cs vtCg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQluFFkVLqCCinMi4DLsaKOa52syV/EEFIRlnphUTWeVpYemiHyaemSnd6llBFDAj3lpjKqf X-Received: by 10.236.4.132 with SMTP id 4mr20784044yhj.28.1405029683243; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 15:01:23 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 10.50.61.133 with SMTP id p5ls4001igr.41.gmail; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 15:01:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.42.22.193 with SMTP id p1mr209718icb.43.1405029681821; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 15:01:21 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from mail-ie0-x22f.google.com (mail-ie0-x22f.google.com [2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22f]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id mq15si1257219icb.97.2014.07.10.15.01.21 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 10 Jul 2014 15:01:21 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of potswa@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22f as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22f; Original-Received: by mail-ie0-f175.google.com with SMTP id x19so203443ier.20 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 15:01:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.27.4 with SMTP id p4mr460663igg.22.1405029681575; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 15:01:21 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [172.20.10.2] ([121.54.54.43]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id p17sm2259408igi.15.2014.07.10.15.01.20 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 10 Jul 2014 15:01:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Original-Sender: potswa@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of potswa@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22f as permitted sender) smtp.mail=potswa@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:11819 Archived-At: On 2014-07-10, at 11:24 PM, Ville Voutilainen wrote: > On 10 July 2014 17:58, David Krauss wrote: >> >> Maybe I don't understand the standardization process, but wouldn't the >> conservative solution be to simply roll that back from N4078, so optional >> behaves the same as everything else? Adding a new feature in a particular >> way doesn't fall into the category of legacy support. > > That's what everybody else but you have been suggesting in this thread - > make the signatures that were proposed to return T&& but changed to return T > return T&& again. o_O What I meant is to return T const &, as in N3966, which precedes N4078. The changelog in N4078 is wrong... as I said, churn. >> Optional is attempting to be the most perfect proxy class ever designed, and >> it's pushing the envelope in a way that fundamentally disagrees with >> standardization. Simply put, it's churning too much. > > Mostly because people keep suggesting new churn that is in their opinion > massively important. So it's their fault? The authors are the ones responsible for the proposal and its evolutionary path, post-adoption. > This small rollback to the original design is not > "too much churn", Ohh, so the revision in between N3966 and N4078 is "the original design." > The rest of the library doesn't have to do anything. What a potential new > and incompatible library does is another matter. Yeah right. The rest of the library can just arbitrarily decide to be incompatible. It might be better to avoid arbitrariness in any part, and carefully think things through before a commitment is made on behalf of the whole C++ world, forever? -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. 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