220 11811 article Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ville Voutilainen Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: N4078: Rvalue reference overloads for value() method returns object by value Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 18:24:34 +0300 Lines: 49 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: References: <4DA018C3-2327-4F55-B7F8-7988EC7B789A@gmail.com> <1a858a77-310b-4591-aaf5-960c40d9f5fc@isocpp.org> <66AF41C1-CB37-4311-98EA-D47DBC6068DC@gmail.com> <66c38b61-7a95-4ace-b34f-2346bb334fb9@isocpp.org> <6F4B3C72-9962-48DC-8527-0C89EA1B9710@gmail.com> <35873CE5-ED8C-4C03-A6A1-E4132DECD91F@gmail.com> <335948E6-8140-4673-B958-930356A52070@gmail.com> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1405005887 11107 80.91.229.3 (10 Jul 2014 15:24:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 15:24:47 +0000 (UTC) To: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBC5JHI7A7ALRBM7A7KOQKGQEHPX3HZQ@isocpp.org Thu Jul 10 17:24:40 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-pa0-f69.google.com ([209.85.220.69]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1X5GD7-0003wD-48 for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 17:24:37 +0200 Original-Received: by mail-pa0-f69.google.com with SMTP id kq14sf60491944pab.8 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 08:24:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=h1OOzUhR5GS/iPdXQ4RVBDKzHx4afAk1rz4pKM/aLPA=; b=Ikres96muYP4H3E6IPXUg9HyqguxpshXRddcmzShL5H8uABSjLXz4KM/AtCP296adf v3FB4Q/c3rJH6zAJoLSLpnkpJ5t93pxKZJSjVAPkdkyPxp1ieLjllb8uKbtBP5e7EbCV G1PQPPZkqKxjDNe1PNCr81ckzg9xcKR4vhU6iiJrIpL3q/ahvZeXHf8ypud+mVditckJ CWNI+L9FFXAZvvDO72EPag9yRDtEfswSfDucdsbfwwObx0/EZ+q9db/Ycd0g4fMU0Xsv KnwRU5TLbK0fRYMxqajNwMCju3C2WUWVxpsX8Kh/8pmnGZb7lZzg8ftXsfjQFTESuA5v +qxQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkYANkrrUDNOo+/Kaxk3ShJuNakR2DH9+4NBaxp9gXOqRJjP8v+vWNxsfkCphQH/3bMIegb X-Received: by 10.66.216.161 with SMTP id or1mr24015965pac.38.1405005876051; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 08:24:36 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 10.140.98.225 with SMTP id o88ls104225qge.88.gmail; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 08:24:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.140.27.108 with SMTP id 99mr76507422qgw.77.1405005875202; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 08:24:35 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from mail-qc0-x22d.google.com (mail-qc0-x22d.google.com [2607:f8b0:400d:c01::22d]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id y46si65067907qgy.90.2014.07.10.08.24.35 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 10 Jul 2014 08:24:35 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of ville.voutilainen@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c01::22d as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400d:c01::22d; Original-Received: by mail-qc0-f173.google.com with SMTP id c9so2133817qcz.18 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 08:24:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.224.87.130 with SMTP id w2mr81294506qal.5.1405005875116; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 08:24:35 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.224.31.137 with HTTP; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 08:24:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <335948E6-8140-4673-B958-930356A52070@gmail.com> X-Original-Sender: ville.voutilainen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of ville.voutilainen@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c01::22d as permitted sender) smtp.mail=ville.voutilainen@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:11811 Archived-At: On 10 July 2014 17:58, David Krauss wrote: > > Maybe I don=E2=80=99t understand the standardization process, but wouldn= =E2=80=99t the > conservative solution be to simply roll that back from N4078, so optional > behaves the same as everything else? Adding a new feature in a particular > way doesn=E2=80=99t fall into the category of legacy support. That's what everybody else but you have been suggesting in this thread - make the signatures that were proposed to return T&& but changed to return = T return T&& again. o_O > > Optional is attempting to be the most perfect proxy class ever designed, = and > it=E2=80=99s pushing the envelope in a way that fundamentally disagrees w= ith > standardization. Simply put, it=E2=80=99s churning too much. Mostly because people keep suggesting new churn that is in their opinion massively important. This small rollback to the original design is not "too much churn", it's a small fix at a suitable time, since optional is no= where near an actual standard. It's in a TS mostly for the reason that people hav= e wanted to keep tweaking it, but I expect that to calm down once the remaini= ng issues with the TS are resolved. > The debate can=E2=80=99t be just about optional, even just in this thread= , because > the rest of the library is going to have to follow suit. The rest of the library doesn't have to do anything. What a potential new and incompatible library does is another matter. --=20 ---=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposa= ls/. .