220 11566 <5d7da991-0399-4cfa-b3bc-97cb4936ee29@isocpp.org> article Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Matthew Fioravante Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: Controversy and debate: Uninitialized variables by default is a bug Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 07:51:34 -0700 (PDT) Lines: 112 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: <5d7da991-0399-4cfa-b3bc-97cb4936ee29@isocpp.org> References: <60caa4ef-b32d-40fe-97b6-8918fbb2bd51@isocpp.org> <20140620202026.GA29898@bacon.lysator.liu.se> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2205_3047765.1403621494932" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1403621501 3012 80.91.229.3 (24 Jun 2014 14:51:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 14:51:41 +0000 (UTC) To: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBDELF54RTIGRB55AU2OQKGQELCC43FI@isocpp.org Tue Jun 24 16:51:37 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-lb0-f197.google.com ([209.85.217.197]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WzS4O-000519-SD for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 16:51:36 +0200 Original-Received: by mail-lb0-f197.google.com with SMTP id 10sf429842lbg.0 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 07:51:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=/DoSdTRNYOHFOaDk9LnXg9SvxqvfVeKTc0zPihix04k=; b=A3MJ9wOgXDrOsO8r4SpoY2NX0gHmhDlnUcn+UqNebb4gi393kcbBKQtJozzGQioYc4 afmMAEPRDEuKLm29Tkih0m79xFdYKpUiih7FGNRAh0aycDjVWI0kr64g1aGvK9QZL/sE QBH173uFo3NZBv9nT60BHOMu6I8GHzZgYWvrDgt277BbIEbOoFvEcGc9w6dKcAjwrIcW 5vvY8llXm5D/5iprEuvcYE6YsKwUrbp1e5LrA3OEmjJKpjHaQckBCjIvJ+YAm+AM/IsY qDMerZAXDUIOoAJAmNF+wZPF8D259RFX+GmNBVsJWC6MX2lWV4OqbWR/GbzIi3i4O+TU CExg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references :subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence :mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=/DoSdTRNYOHFOaDk9LnXg9SvxqvfVeKTc0zPihix04k=; b=BJNIT4R69BZYzrF0lBBs7HC3RsN9d7E5We5BKPMkxVxgeFmmSXu9yIuKkpJ/oJdhB+ +OTTxK/QUtvIcoy+gP+iTtDejH0XaXrGlKsdWx4EWTf09S4xmwEB1z90B5HkA5NynPMY l+SXx3JZBS4hYirj3VPE5AofGMBtFcuET0+kagMNu0P00Bk3+UmqshwT3gY8UXJXy3Lu igG3oUUU8cypKZYYX7AaGLQIh6VNDJ4q9i3Sn//4lu7QoFhvkQcFrxUfQK8syd2b2/wG okRI3gjdswdL5rDRv41ggwqrLjidZs6DoKxg2JQ8DzXpjYW6aMz7UMMKORAq5mnlyVVX EidA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmt/RDZYC6bx1SL0S5Fd14BfjOcPZBT+r45ZHbVQ7a9aCrTslTYb+Cn3SdFFfLEwenKH3jN X-Received: by 10.194.92.110 with SMTP id cl14mr217774wjb.1.1403621496529; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 07:51:36 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 10.140.43.35 with SMTP id d32ls2448963qga.87.gmail; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 07:51:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.140.47.15 with SMTP id l15mr16855qga.5.1403621495655; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 07:51:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20140620202026.GA29898@bacon.lysator.liu.se> X-Original-Sender: fmatthew5876@gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:11566 Archived-At: ------=_Part_2205_3047765.1403621494932 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I'll respond to all of the feedback later. In the meantime, it looks like Scott Meyers had something to say about this very subject in the first 10 minutes of this talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48kP_Ssg2eY On Friday, June 20, 2014 4:20:30 PM UTC-4, Magnus Fromreide wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 09:20:13AM -0700, Jim Porter wrote: > > On Tuesday, June 17, 2014 10:58:55 AM UTC-5, Nevin ":-)" Liber wrote: > > > > > > On 17 June 2014 17:49, Matthew Fioravante > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Plus, that ship has sailed with C a long, long time ago... > > > > > > > I think it would be reasonable to add the option > > explicit-non-initialization to the standard, e.g. > > > > int foo; // doesn't initialize > > int foo = __no_init__; // doesn't initialize > > int foo = 0; // initializes > > That would probably require some way to detect explicit-non-initialization > in order to support > > std::vector v(MEGABYTE, __no_init__); // a megabyte vector with > // unspecified content > > which seems like a natural extension if explicit non-initialization is > added to the language. > > /MF > -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposals/. ------=_Part_2205_3047765.1403621494932 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'll respond to all of the feedback later.
In the meant= ime, it looks like Scott Meyers had something to say about this very subjec= t in the first 10 minutes of this talk:

https://www.youtube.com/watc= h?v=3D48kP_Ssg2eY


On Friday, June 20, 2014 4:20:30 PM UTC-4, Mag= nus Fromreide wrote:
On Tue, Ju= n 17, 2014 at 09:20:13AM -0700, Jim Porter wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 17, 2014 10:58:55 AM UTC-5, Nevin ":-)" Liber wro= te:
> >
> > On 17 June 2014 17:49, Matthew Fioravante <fmatth...@gm= ail.com=20
> > <javascript:>> wrote:
> >
>=20
> > Plus, that ship has sailed with C a long, long time ago...
> >
>=20
> I think it would be reasonable to add the option=20
> explicit-non-initialization to the standard, e.g.
>=20
>   int foo; // doesn't initialize
>   int foo =3D __no_init__; // doesn't initialize
>   int foo =3D 0; // initializes

That would probably require some way to detect explicit-non-initializat= ion
in order to support

std::vector<int> v(MEGABYTE, __no_init__); // a megabyte vector w= ith
                    &= nbsp;                    =  // unspecified content

which seems like a natural extension if explicit non-initialization is
added to the language.

/MF

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposa= ls+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposals/<= /a>.
------=_Part_2205_3047765.1403621494932-- .