220 8895 article Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Matthew Woehlke Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: Comments on 2d api for c++ N3888.pdf Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2014 12:28:35 -0500 Lines: 40 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: References: <9105f9b2-e15d-4bf8-a4a1-65ebc3657eb0@isocpp.org> <4305077.qmkjCE1Vbu@tjmaciei-mobl2> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1390930124 19986 80.91.229.3 (28 Jan 2014 17:28:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2014 17:28:44 +0000 (UTC) To: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBCO5FYHBU4ERBUORT6LQKGQE36U5VLA@isocpp.org Tue Jan 28 18:28:50 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-ea0-f199.google.com ([209.85.215.199]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W8CSw-0004sP-PD for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Tue, 28 Jan 2014 18:28:50 +0100 Original-Received: by mail-ea0-f199.google.com with SMTP id g15sf1436871eak.2 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2014 09:28:50 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:subject:date:lines:message-id:references :mime-version:user-agent:in-reply-to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Co8pN7OtXjWyKra22/u0aMPrGiTrVcDrXVMlrDQrf0M=; b=RMn7XTt4pMAlbMMZJGfdjTCU3PxsxtjDi3FT+MriNZVaveWdIX+Wtala7qJlrba+dx N4MyDuZpVoZdHGe0j6/bSw7au4Qov84sg62Mr/1n72bsOp+kbVfxvbSaw787J/N8g1lI /WeHDTUYEOWNpkCiZPGneXXmrH+EeRQVJci0hsv62UEPLGv6c2b80w5UakvFLkUVK5VX hOIS/HN9gawjICXhhhWNnz/7hIndBI3KbT6WXOVHIlBgbkWuwq7w6ZcBAPaDweo+gZJm lOWQXUdo7Uqr8Ell7nRoP4bxLEcVh5yrxvWWkW/KLr/KFU5nOWOUDGu+dceHcwXXLzU4 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlVfvtwZdadlLkNUrHl2ZbuyDpQcnQCsZIOYkqmYil+7kieQhGf1OkeTxNfHr/ilp4s9Aly X-Received: by 10.152.189.69 with SMTP id gg5mr1558897lac.9.1390930130350; Tue, 28 Jan 2014 09:28:50 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 10.152.21.4 with SMTP id r4ls67209lae.51.gmail; Tue, 28 Jan 2014 09:28:49 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.112.64.67 with SMTP id m3mr1613342lbs.11.1390930129045; Tue, 28 Jan 2014 09:28:49 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org (plane.gmane.org. [80.91.229.3]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l9si5936114lbd.149.2014.01.28.09.28.48 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 28 Jan 2014 09:28:48 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org designates 80.91.229.3 as permitted sender) client-ip=80.91.229.3; Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W8CSt-0004qm-GZ for std-proposals@isocpp.org; Tue, 28 Jan 2014 18:28:47 +0100 Original-Received: from tripoint.kitware.com ([66.194.253.20]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2014 18:28:47 +0100 Original-Received: from mw_triad by tripoint.kitware.com with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2014 18:28:47 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 27 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: tripoint.kitware.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 In-Reply-To: <4305077.qmkjCE1Vbu@tjmaciei-mobl2> X-Original-Sender: mw_triad@users.sourceforge.net X-Original-Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org designates 80.91.229.3 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:8895 Archived-At: On 2014-01-28 11:46, Thiago Macieira wrote: > On ter=C3=A7a-feira, 28 de janeiro de 2014 09:44:08, Matthew Woehlke wrot= e: >> As I understood it, the point here is that the API should be agnostic to >> the engine. Ideally to the extent that the engine can be changed without >> recompiling code. This is the case with e.g. Qt, which allows swapping >> out the underlying engine via an environment variable. >> >> Exposing too much of the underlying guts is an invitation to write >> non-portable code. > > Which might be necessary. Not providing the native handles limits the > usefulness to only the API that is provided, no extension possible. Sure. I think what I'm trying to say is more that if the API is such=20 that writing native code is necessary more often than "rarely, and only=20 in special situations", it's not a very good API. Also, I wouldn't write native access into the standard except perhaps=20 for some brief wording that implementations may extend the API for that=20 reason. Otherwise you *do* get into standardizing X / WinGDI / DirectX /=20 OpenGL / etc. IOW let the platform vendor "standardize" native access, and only worry=20 about the homogenous API at the language level. --=20 Matthew --=20 ---=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposa= ls/. .