220 7627 article Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Billy O'Neal" Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: Re: Fixing the private method issue Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2013 14:12:09 -0800 Lines: 148 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: References: <527a6d7d.ea42420a.1057.ffffdaad@mx.google.com> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0116028c2bd5bf04ea89736b X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1383775968 337 80.91.229.3 (6 Nov 2013 22:12:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2013 22:12:48 +0000 (UTC) To: std-proposals Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBDKLBLVE6ADBBY755KJQKGQEZE44GDY@isocpp.org Wed Nov 06 23:12:54 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-qc0-f198.google.com ([209.85.216.198]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VeBLI-0006HM-98 for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2013 23:12:52 +0100 Original-Received: by mail-qc0-f198.google.com with SMTP id k18sf223257qcv.1 for ; Wed, 06 Nov 2013 14:12:51 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=GUQvuxKNQKmjN1wrfOE35yf+etCxwpZAVvLOc9I7q9E=; b=j81qnNc7nHCsT7HL9LOmkH9YxKvtw9uvWZ6b/FDB7p3GT/W/DIYVuFrGFo2qb8N1B7 y0he60+P1JEDUIL/nuSxN6uisTb+RRajvTH7WJFtcmSzZ5h8sWkdo5igsKgJ7v6PftGa kOu4outmmZx4+IbVSOmcj7GKm38K4y+e0LFhSI7V7cSaar4E2tfvvdozCJFGMw5IFFkW b3oMFTPmEzRiAiO5C0PDKhgJAB7cz7WlImPxgSMDh8gCJswWZQV8KWLK5kYiR/0rusvE rIIIL+hmFfhFVlpaRWNuJ+q1s0CcfGsve3bx39YDvVTSiXcC7dl0ilyRj5e5Z+SSpJI8 mKlA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQm2A+e0pPJgP0O+T8D9qtfV8k18EBQFogv+1p6wzklWgYHgV3a2zLHtpU/MGEw5dKhdTb66 X-Received: by 10.58.134.110 with SMTP id pj14mr1628885veb.14.1383775971474; Wed, 06 Nov 2013 14:12:51 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 10.49.121.1 with SMTP id lg1ls841800qeb.90.gmail; Wed, 06 Nov 2013 14:12:50 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.236.130.52 with SMTP id j40mr2183yhi.151.1383775970942; Wed, 06 Nov 2013 14:12:50 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from mail-oa0-x233.google.com (mail-oa0-x233.google.com [2607:f8b0:4003:c02::233]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f1si192930yho.331.2013.11.06.14.12.50 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 06 Nov 2013 14:12:50 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of billy.oneal@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4003:c02::233 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4003:c02::233; Original-Received: by mail-oa0-f51.google.com with SMTP id o6so167514oag.10 for ; Wed, 06 Nov 2013 14:12:50 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.60.94.164 with SMTP id dd4mr1812049oeb.68.1383775970512; Wed, 06 Nov 2013 14:12:50 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.182.87.37 with HTTP; Wed, 6 Nov 2013 14:12:09 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: billy.oneal@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of billy.oneal@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4003:c02::233 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=billy.oneal@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:7627 Archived-At: --089e0116028c2bd5bf04ea89736b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >Non-copyable classes [...] are used quite useful and are used quite a lot, without any need for copying them. Yes, they are. However, one always has to balance how often something is used with the scope of the change in the language proposed. I don't think this pattern is near common enough to merit having to define a completely new class declaration syntax for people to learn. Of course, I'm not on the committee or anything like that so it isn't like my opinion matters. >iostream The iostreams classes are templates, and as a result need even public member definitions available in each translation unit, so that's not a great example. Billy O'Neal https://github.com/BillyONeal/ http://stackoverflow.com/users/82320/billy-oneal Malware Response Instructor - BleepingComputer.com On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Olaf van der Spek wrote: > On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 7:01 PM, Billy O'Neal > wrote: > > I'm confused -- first you want to be able to add private non-virtual > member > > functions to a class inside of a single translation unit, which seems > > reasonable. Now you're proposing something else -- completely separating > the > > public interface of the class from its representation. I don't think > that'd > > be near as useful -- the number of translation units which mention the > type, > > call public member functions of the type, but don't try to copy or > otherwise > > interact with it are going to be extremely small. > > What do you mean by otherwise interacting? > Non-copyable classes like iostream et are used quite useful and are > used quite a lot, without any need for copying them. > > -- > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. > To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. > Visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposals/. > -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposals/. --089e0116028c2bd5bf04ea89736b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>Non-copyable classes [...] are used quite us= eful and are=A0used quite a lot, without any need for copying them.
Yes, they are. However, one always has to balance how often something is= used with the scope of the change in the language proposed. I don't th= ink this pattern is near common enough to merit having to define a complete= ly new class declaration syntax for people to learn. Of course, I'm not= on the committee or anything like that so it isn't like my opinion mat= ters.
=A0
>iostream
The iostreams classes are t= emplates, and as a result need even public member definitions available in = each translation unit, so that's not a great example.
=A0
=A0

Malware Response Instructor - BleepingComputer.com


On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Olaf van= der Spek <olafvdspek@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 7:01 PM, Billy O'Neal <billy.oneal@gmail.com> wrote: > I'm confused -- first you want to be able to add private non-virtu= al member
> functions to a class inside of a single translation unit, which seems<= br> > reasonable. Now you're proposing something else -- completely sepa= rating the
> public interface of the class from its representation. I don't thi= nk that'd
> be near as useful -- the number of translation units which mention the= type,
> call public member functions of the type, but don't try to copy or= otherwise
> interact with it are going to be extremely small.

What do you mean by otherwise interacting?
Non-copyable classes like iostream et are used quite useful and are
used quite a lot, without any need for copying them.

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