220 7592 article Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Billy O'Neal" Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: Fixing the private method issue Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 09:37:35 -0800 Lines: 139 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: References: <1CD4DBEC-8081-42AD-861A-FF87D7E55606@gmail.com> <1389104.IyPuZUyp0R@tjmaciei-mobl2> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e011830f47eef0c04ea5d6175 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1383586696 24742 80.91.229.3 (4 Nov 2013 17:38:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 17:38:16 +0000 (UTC) To: std-proposals Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBDKLBLVE6ADBBCFX36JQKGQEQNGAXIA@isocpp.org Mon Nov 04 18:38:18 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-ie0-f198.google.com ([209.85.223.198]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VdO6U-000112-BK for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2013 18:38:18 +0100 Original-Received: by mail-ie0-f198.google.com with SMTP id tp5sf22292840ieb.1 for ; Mon, 04 Nov 2013 09:38:17 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=Z3EO8sGHyD3F0X4R/A7otFOJqUD7E28fi96+mrDXJKg=; b=m2XYdIUPtQ9DNy4dfUr60H8CflecOm9jXed/YIk3ZPYtTVe31pfAnJbqHyU6G78udM z6DhAVhqT88xd644DHoNvLqD59vuONDyiYKhmWGUZ8V/dv3PZweG1F1Ow3/lfvk/RjoB g8NFi+3ofDgMOmNQ62/ByutGWGx1/Qj4gC3ndzcHCkXgd+fOufH24ji9uFqs2N8iEosG ZGcSNapQhOu+8Nx6GB7YRgt4j9FIEivOYThgp+fUUR/7HsthMbllF8eueO6LLMncHNbH iECHq11fATnaXQ34pJdaZUW1seDFYwe+ZAMjRnx5lMaRi6XtJJOQTHikBaVQVYAYakdh OCcw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnDq8VorO/S/Ydjy3aRyiMCzihSyZO0AB4muQV9oaKC4Y0bBNBcP8sxhXjZ3iu8VsD+oKS0 X-Received: by 10.182.47.168 with SMTP id e8mr5932150obn.12.1383586697424; Mon, 04 Nov 2013 09:38:17 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 10.49.85.198 with SMTP id j6ls2298118qez.6.gmail; Mon, 04 Nov 2013 09:38:15 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.236.26.137 with SMTP id c9mr1580346yha.97.1383586695852; Mon, 04 Nov 2013 09:38:15 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from mail-ob0-x232.google.com (mail-ob0-x232.google.com [2607:f8b0:4003:c01::232]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z8si6012101yhb.247.2013.11.04.09.38.15 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 04 Nov 2013 09:38:15 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of billy.oneal@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4003:c01::232 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4003:c01::232; Original-Received: by mail-ob0-f178.google.com with SMTP id wm4so7315902obc.23 for ; Mon, 04 Nov 2013 09:38:15 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.60.157.2 with SMTP id wi2mr6095884oeb.35.1383586695406; Mon, 04 Nov 2013 09:38:15 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.182.87.37 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Nov 2013 09:37:35 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: billy.oneal@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of billy.oneal@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4003:c01::232 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=billy.oneal@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:7592 Archived-At: --089e011830f47eef0c04ea5d6175 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >The idea is to move all private parts out of the header, avoiding rebuilds on changes to private parts. That isn't possible in a language with value semantics everywhere. Java and C# allow this by forcing all interactions with a class to occur through pointers / references, and by generating code at runtime for correct inheritance behavior. Those aren't acceptable tradeoffs for a language like C++. Billy O'Neal https://github.com/BillyONeal/ http://stackoverflow.com/users/82320/billy-oneal Malware Response Instructor - BleepingComputer.com On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 8:28 AM, Olaf van der Spek wrote: > On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Thiago Macieira > wrote: > > On segunda-feira, 4 de novembro de 2013 15:14:56, Olaf van der Spek > wrote: > >> One could use a factory function > >> Or some (automatic) get_size() function could be generated > > > > Let's not go there, please. > > > > Instead, if this is a desired feature, let's just make it so the compiler > > knows that it's a partial declaration. Until the declaration is full, > the type > > is incomplete and its size is not known. > > The idea is to move all private parts out of the header, avoiding > rebuilds on changes to private parts. > > > -- > Olaf > > -- > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. > To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. > Visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposals/. > -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposals/. --089e011830f47eef0c04ea5d6175 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>The idea is to move all private parts out of the = header, avoiding rebuilds on changes to private parts.
=A0
<= div>That isn't possible in a language with value semantics everywhere. = Java and C# allow this by forcing all interactions with a class to occur th= rough pointers / references, and by generating code at runtime for correct = inheritance behavior. Those aren't acceptable tradeoffs for a language = like C++.

Billy O'Neal
Malware Response Instructor - BleepingComputer.com


On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 8:28 AM, Olaf van= der Spek <olafvdspek@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Thiago Macieira <thiago@macieira.org> wrote:
> On segunda-feira, 4 de novembro de 2013 15:14:56, Olaf van der Spek wr= ote:
>> One could use a factory function
>> Or some (automatic) get_size() function could be generated
>
> Let's not go there, please.
>
> Instead, if this is a desired feature, let's just make it so the c= ompiler
> knows that it's a partial declaration. Until the declaration is fu= ll, the type
> is incomplete and its size is not known.

The idea is to move all private parts out of the header, avoiding
rebuilds on changes to private parts.


--
Olaf

--

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