220 6825 <524A56D7.80109@gmail.com> article Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Krauss Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals Subject: Re: Modules before adding Concepts Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 13:00:07 +0800 Lines: 46 Approved: news@gmane.org Message-ID: <524A56D7.80109@gmail.com> References: <38703f65-fe3b-4eea-8fe9-6729edd5e76a@isocpp.org> Reply-To: std-proposals@isocpp.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1380603619 17730 80.91.229.3 (1 Oct 2013 05:00:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 05:00:19 +0000 (UTC) To: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-X-From: std-proposals+bncBCW25A7E3QCRBYVNVGJAKGQEPRJGHGA@isocpp.org Tue Oct 01 07:00:22 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-ob0-f198.google.com ([209.85.214.198]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VQs4J-0007OW-Km for gclcip-std-proposals@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Oct 2013 07:00:19 +0200 Original-Received: by mail-ob0-f198.google.com with SMTP id uy5sf23824724obc.1 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 22:00:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=fihvT82PxrgD4v7J0yfwRjsWna1lcz/jW1NynOVOZRc=; b=kyxP5Y0/0XPTHyG5LV0/LPzuwls21R2bc37Qbc4J2CmNPrg9RIHTEZsmpNs4clmKz4 /GVilzRAvYXbLfuLbMw+b5kXGAENcyK+YnD9lDsWerGNtkEDcmG/87soYgHGjdXUpNsM tP3zzAYAIouQa5uCuVWrS+774XxlKtBO5FYssOTiuzI3BFTnKLOTia7As5g0LPvZZK4D QU1LQM3BxUYWXoK56FKu++aBeThZdHMCKIU15p5nhut9AomnFmVnlMvLIBvb2ptonDmW Mes8+dwx+NLAVPoFvyyewD3UqQEkI8DTjpX8TX/LAqYFbjHOMAmjpfMUrDLNRCMiJ3p+ s5Mg== X-Received: by 10.50.73.37 with SMTP id i5mr14998163igv.2.1380603618637; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 22:00:18 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: std-proposals@isocpp.org Original-Received: by 10.50.101.51 with SMTP id fd19ls2462624igb.10.canary; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 22:00:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.68.171.35 with SMTP id ar3mr26865139pbc.77.1380603617918; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 22:00:17 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from mail-pd0-x230.google.com (mail-pd0-x230.google.com [2607:f8b0:400e:c02::230]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id rr7si2868830pbc.165.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 30 Sep 2013 22:00:17 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of potswa@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400e:c02::230 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400e:c02::230; Original-Received: by mail-pd0-f176.google.com with SMTP id q10so6582112pdj.7 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 22:00:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.68.252.33 with SMTP id zp1mr27497754pbc.95.1380603617803; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 22:00:17 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from Davids-MacBook-Pro.local ([121.54.54.157]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id rv9sm4335422pbc.4.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 30 Sep 2013 22:00:16 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: potswa@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of potswa@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400e:c02::230 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=potswa@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list std-proposals@isocpp.org; contact std-proposals+owners@isocpp.org List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 399137483710 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.lang.c++.isocpp.proposals:6825 Archived-At: On 9/30/13 11:57 PM, Robert Zeh wrote: > On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 10:07 AM, snk_kid = wrote: > >> Then come back to features, features which can have >> an influence (and influenced by) compilation times and see how they perf= orm. >> > I agree that the compile times for projects over 1 million lines of code > makes life difficult --- it has certainly made my life difficult. Why don't precompiled headers work for you? Adjusting the language to make compilers faster seems conceptually=20 backwards, or a red flag. I haven't looked into modules much, but I'd=20 assumed the motivation was elsewhere. I thought header repetition was a=20 solved problem. Loading precompiled header files also takes significant time, but=20 modules wouldn't necessarily be any better. I'm sure that can be=20 improved, but it's a job for compiler vendors. Standardizing an interoperable format equivalent to a precompiled header=20 would take forever. PCHes are just AST dumps. Standardizing a=20 compressed, serialized AST for every C++ construct? That's much harder=20 than standardizing an ABI. And when a compiler has to perform meaningful=20 conversion because the native AST differs, performance is lost and the=20 exercise becomes pointless. So we already have a speedy binary format on every platform used for=20 serious work, and we're never going to unify these formats anyway=85 what= =20 are modules supposed to fix? Just to remove the PCH build-system=20 boilerplate by letting the compiler cache things more easily? Seems minor. --=20 ---=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org. To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposa= ls/. .