From -7989502334626218643 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 109fba,97482af7429a6a62 X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public X-Google-Thread: 1108a1,371d317eff97da58 X-Google-Attributes: gid1108a1,public X-Google-Thread: 10bca1,37f5012c390e46a6 X-Google-Attributes: gid10bca1,public X-Google-Thread: f78e5,d0101e78f246296b X-Google-Attributes: gidf78e5,public From: jim.fleming@bytes.com (Jim Fleming) Subject: C+@ Tails Date: 1995/06/04 Message-ID: <3qr7b9$h71@News1.mcs.com> X-Deja-AN: 103755569 references: <3qlikc$1ph@News1.mcs.com> <3qnhue$9f2@news.wwa.com> <3qnlo5$hfn@ornews.intel.com> organization: Unir Corporation mime-version: 1.0 newsgroups: comp.object,comp.lang.c++,comp.std.c++,alt.culture.internet In article <3qnlo5$hfn@ornews.intel.com>, pdlogan@ornews.intel.com says... > >Robert C. Martin (rmartin@oma.com) wrote: > >: But that does not mean that if BL had produced a language of poor >: quality, everybody would have used it. Rather, I think that if C++ >: had turned out to be half-baked or have other problems, the industry >: would not have adopted it with the enthusiasm that it now shows. > >It is debatable whether or not C++ is of "poor quality". > >However from my experience with C++ since 1988, I have observed >a lot of adoption without a deep understanding of the language. >I cannot say whether these adopters would have done differently >had they done more of an assessment. > >-- >Patrick_D_Logan@ccm.jf.intel.com @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Also, it would have been interesting to see what would have happened if people had been given a "choice". As a friend of mine from the old Soviet Union once told me, the "best" bread was the *only bread* and everyone learned to "eat it" even though it was stale. As a side note, during my many years in and around AT&T Bell Labs I had the pleasure of meeting and working with several people from the old Soviet Union. In most cases these people came to America *before* it was cool to come here. Since I had never had the opportunity to visit the old Soviet Union, I used to ask my friends, "what is it like?". I used to ask, "If it is so bad why don't people take up arms and shovels and revolt?". I will never forget that one of my Russian friends said to me... "AT&T Bell Laboratories is the closest thing to the Soviet Union that he had encountered, since leaving". At first, I was shocked and this did not make sense. After he explained some more it became clear how he was drawing the comparison. He pointed out that at AT&T Bell Labs and in the old Soviet Union... 1. They never make a mistake and if they do they NEVER admit it. 2. The majority of *people* are paid well and are comfortable with respect to the rest of society, therefore there is no reason to "revolt". Most people fall into some "role" and spend most of their life living in quiet desperation waiting to retire. Employment is guaranteed and incentives to achieve are removed. 3. There is always a party-line and it rarely reflects the truth... if someone leaves they are always doomed to live a hard life outside of the "system" and a party-line is developed about why that person could not make it in the "system". 4. The internal news media (like Bell Labs News) reports one-sided propaganda and is not a source of news but rather a tool used by management to "reward" selected individuals and to steer society in certain directions according to the "party-line". 5. There is a heavy emphasis placed on academics but there is a highly controlled system whereby only certain people are "chosen", no matter what their abilities or contributions. In most cases, the origin of one's diploma means 10 times more than the person's abilities. 6. There is an elaborate "cast" system. Nepotism and other forms of favoritism are commmon and complex social programs like affirmative action are emphasized but the bottom line result is that only "chosen" individuals become part of the inner research circles. 7. There is a facade put on for the outside world that looks in and sees what appears to be a healthy and happy place even though human rights violations could be common, and are never seen. Tourists see a one sided view. 8. People are given incredible resources (both financial and physical) and there is never any mention of how much easier it might be for a researcher to produce some result given the level of support. The playing field is never level and any effort to level the playing field is met with harsh resistance. 9. There is a total lack of concern about the outside world. The party-line is that Bell Labs is the best and there is rarely a comparison done of similar technologies. If something fails it is because of AT&T marketing and if something succeeds then technical excellence must have been the reason. 10. The internal "party" rewards its own members and people are given more awards when they defend the party, especially in situations where the party is wrong. Of course defending the party is not hard...because it is NEVER wrong... 11. Certain selected individuals are promoted for "external consumption" so that the rest of the world thinks that everything is wonderful and life behind the "walls" is a bed of roses. 12. Lastly, there is an answer for everything and the answer is always skewed to support the "party" and the company and no one challenges the answer because they will be exhiled to Cyberia. It is interesting to note that with the growth of the Internet, Cyberia could become a very nice place. If a person had a choice of living in Cyberia (on the net) and living under the opressive system imposed by a place like Bell Labs, they might easily choose Cyberia. Cyberia can end up being a place filled with interesting people with interesting ideas. The discussions and interchanges can be open and can result in true progress being made (for example Linux). The additional financial rewards and the superb facilities of a place like Bell Labs are often now not enough for a person to trade their intellectual freedom for the opressive environment. I am sure that many people have analyzed the fall of the Sovet Union and have a good understanding of how an oppressive society can no longer attract "the best" people. The people no longer want to live the "big lie" if they can go other places on the planet and recover their freedom to think. I believe that we will see this same sort of trend at places like AT&T Bell Laboratories. Why would anyone want to live in that oppressive socialistic atmosphere when they can live in Cyberia and have an open mind and freely discuss ideas, technologies, discoveries, etc. This new world order of information interchange can only happen because the cost of communication has been lowered. It will be interesting to watch as companies like AT&T try to reverse this phenomenon. If you look at their various press releases on internet developments you will see a common theme of "how do we make people pay for information"... (see http://www.att.com) ...when the barrier to communicate is raised (like the Berlin Wall) then companies like AT&T can once again regain control (like the old Soviet Union) and they can make it very difficult for... ...the "True Voices" to be heard... -- Jim Fleming /|\ Unir Corporation Unir Technology, Inc. jrf@tiger.bytes.com / | \ One Naperville Plaza 184 Shuman Blvd. #100 %Techno Cat I / | \ Naperville, IL 60563 Naperville, IL 60563 East End, Tortola |____|___\ 1-708-505-5801 1-800-222-UNIR(8647) British Virgin Islands__|______ 1-708-305-3277 (FAX) 1-708-305-0600 \__/-------\__/ http:199.3.34.13 telnet: port 5555 Smooth Sailing on Cruising C+@amarans ftp: 199.3.34.12 <-----stargate----+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\____to the end of the OuterNet_|