From 3766441993403593083 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: f78e5,40bc29384a77c552 X-Google-Attributes: gidf78e5,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2002-04-11 14:43:02 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!canoe.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!skynet.be!skynet.be!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail From: "Edward Diener" Newsgroups: comp.std.c++ Subject: Re: Messages facet and wide character filename Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:41:49 GMT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Approved: Fergus Henderson , moderator of comp.std.c++ Message-ID: References: <3cb19462$0$11204$4c41069e@reader1.ash.ops.us.uu.net> <3CB239B4.E41D0B98@acm.org> <_yts8.1524$CA6.117218@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <3CB2EF4B.DA3C3BBA@acm.org> <3CB36E29.8040709@yahoo.com> <5b15f8fd.0204100745.3580bfe0@posting.google.com> <86u1qisapd.fsf@alex.gabi-soft.de> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 1018561327 mail2news:510 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!mulga.cs.mu.oz.au X-Authentication-Warning: mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU: fjh set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:52:43 PDT Lines: 52 Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.std.c++:10525 "James Kanze" wrote in message news:86u1qisapd.fsf@alex.gabi-soft.de... "Edward Diener" writes: >> I think the sort of disdain for such people's contributions, no >> matter how much the committee feels that they themselves can come up >> with all possible improvements and set the future direction of C++, >> is a bad sign in the creative process of changing or enhancing a >> computer language for future users. > I think that you are misinterpreting the situation. The current problem > is that the committee has in the past been too open to simple > suggestions, without actual implementations behind them. With the > results that even five years after the stabilisation of the standard, > there is no released compiler which implements all of it. This is largely the fault of the fact that C++ does not have a major monetary force behind it, such as MS with C# and VB, Borland with OP, and Sun with Java, and therefore many of the leading companies are in no hurry to implement a standard which directly competes with their own moneymakers. Except for the "export" keyword, whose possible implementation has been a subject of much debate, I don't know of any language or library feature which has been shown to be too difficult to implement. There are a few compilers that are very close to the standard, Comeau I know of is one, and I don't think it is the impossibility of the standard which has kept many large companies from actually reaching 98%+ conformance, even though some of the rules, particularly regarding templates and overload resolution can be daunting. > The role of > standardization is NOT a "creative process of changing or enhancing a > computer language", it is first and foremost the standardization of > existing practice. The creative part has no role, or at least, should > have no role in standardization. Then at what point does the language get changed and/or improved ? If the role of standardization is just the "standardization of existing practice", then when does the other part occur ? Or is C++ so wonderful in every respect, and so little in need of change and/or improvement, that there is no need to even have a process which would facilitate any changes ? My interpretation of putting out a new C++ standard is that if creative ideas and implementations are presented and are shown to work and improve the language, then it can be part of the committee's process to add these to the language. Whether they do or not is their own decision. --- [ comp.std.c++ is moderated. To submit articles, try just posting with ] [ your news-reader. If that fails, use mailto:std-c++@ncar.ucar.edu ] [ --- Please see the FAQ before posting. --- ] [ FAQ: http://www.jamesd.demon.co.uk/csc/faq.html ]