From 8117600320294737539 X-Google-Thread: f78e5,e8e0ab29e8861265 X-Google-Attributes: gidf78e5,public X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Path: g2news1.google.com!news4.google.com!news.glorb.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!local01.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.speakeasy.net!news.speakeasy.net.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 19:30:07 -0500 Return-Path: X-Authentication-Warning: mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU: fjh set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov) Delivered-To: std-c++@ucar.edu From: "Bob Bell" Newsgroups: comp.std.c++ Subject: Re: If C++ had interfaces, what would they be? Organization: http://groups.google.com Message-ID: <1122594247.539600.155250@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> References: <1121963458.661748.118300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1122299887.515239.317170@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1122336456.595882.282330@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <42E60A63.9050409@cs.york.ac.uk> <1122409313.507177.240760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1122497839.229429.320980@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <_cadnel6Iu4Qx3XfRVn-tA@speakeasy.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com User-Agent: G2/0.2 Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com; posting-host=160.33.20.11; posting-account=YkQmFgwAAADb4VCQxbKct8M2us8SA5QU X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ucar.edu X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at cs.mu.OZ.AU Approved: Fergus Henderson , moderator of comp.std.c++ X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at cs.mu.OZ.AU Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 19:23:29 CST Lines: 70 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.182.171.162 X-Trace: sv3-uOrpXAgXH0GY0llyg0lJ44n7LTxzrZYRb+vxJFlsgY9pUFnvFM7w17v46VfS9BeHp0T4NPtJiD5AfcD!Ln9XSEiq0MxPFSd6b5xzJ7rybHXWu/XQa+3R7LF8iAV45hJyYwGmK4t8OHMfGd8sXRFB9vjcd/m+!dnq7tIVnEfJiv1bWn5DDWRcKb/stzKyZ6aicWe6B09A= X-Complaints-To: abuse@speakeasy.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse@speakeasy.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.32 Xref: g2news1.google.com comp.std.c++:1548 "Steven T. Hatton" wrote: > Bob Bell wrote: > > > Steven T. Hatton wrote: > > > What has that got to do with C++? > > Much. For one thing, the information structure may not be hierarchically > organized if we art talking about C++ code. If there is an extensive use > of macros, the adjective "organized" is likely to be inaccurate. With > #defines and #includes, changing one value which could be determined by > anything from a patch version for a seemingly unrelated program, to a > compiler option, the entire structure of a translation unit can be > significantly altered. One cannot simply look at the current context and > understand what the code in front of him or her means. Even knowing what a > macro /can/ be expanded to doesn't tell you /what/ it will be expanded to. > > Resolving such questions takes (wastes) time. It is not uncommon that > trying to read code written in Cpp, and called C++, requires learning an > entirely new unstructured programming language. Hmm. I asked about using a web browser to search for information in a set of web pages and what that says about C++, but your reply doesn't seem to have anything to do with the question. > > So you were searching a code base using a tool that was poorly suited > > for the job. How does that support the idea that C++ needs to be > > changed? > > It's not a question of whether I can find the source of the non-returning > branch. (non-returning branch?) Then why did you ask: > ...what happens when you are > examining an SVN repository with a web browser? > > I don't see the connection between difficulties associated with using a > > web browser to browse code and the idea that use of the preprocessor > > can lead to problems; would the situation be any different if you were > > using a web browser to find an overload of a function? A template > > specialization? A class definition? A free function? > > AAMOF, yes, such things are _far_ easier to find and evaluate with, for > example, doxygen output. I didn't ask whether it would be easier to use doxygen to find those things; I asked about a web browser. Your complaint was about using a web browser to search a code base. I still don't see what the deficiencies of using a web browser to search a code base tells us about the deficiencies of the preprocessor. > I've taken to running Doxygen on all libraries I > happen to be using. If anything, doxygen helps demonstrate my point; it's a tool. It's far from a perfect tool, but it illustrates my point: that it's possible to create tools to deal with the things your talking about, rather than change the language. Bob --- [ comp.std.c++ is moderated. To submit articles, try just posting with ] [ your news-reader. If that fails, use mailto:std-c++@ncar.ucar.edu ] [ --- Please see the FAQ before posting. --- ] [ FAQ: http://www.jamesd.demon.co.uk/csc/faq.html ]