From -3967522401193220077 X-Google-Thread: f78e5,52112cea9d2ccd4a X-Google-Attributes: gidf78e5,public X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Path: g2news1.google.com!news1.google.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed.news.tiscali.de!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!peer-uk.news.demon.net!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!stump.algebra.com!devnull From: seewebsiteforemail@moderncppdesign.com ("Andrei Alexandrescu (See Website for Email)") Newsgroups: comp.std.c++ Subject: Re: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=A75=2E2=2E2/8_unspecified_evluation_od?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?er=3F?= Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 16:11:56 GMT Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U of Washington, Seattle Lines: 75 Sender: mail2news@demon.net Approved: fjh@cs.mu.oz.au (Fergus Henderson , moderator of comp.std.c++) Message-ID: <42F22D0B.8010108@moderncppdesign.com> References: <42E4EB01.9020700@alumina.nl> <42E64CCE.7030708@cs.york.ac.uk> <42E68BDD.1050701@alumina.nl> <1122649512.879866.38000@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3l12o0F10nuusU1@individual.net> <0RfHe.2500$%a2.1721@trndny03> <3l5u7qFvrvk8U1@individual.net> <200508011747.j71HlbuC069360@horus.isnic.is> <1122936886.396427.298260@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1123012422.458492.183540@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <200 NNTP-Posting-Host: news.news.demon.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1123171921 8972 158.152.254.254 (4 Aug 2005 16:12:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 16:12:01 +0000 (UTC) X-Nntp-Posting-Host: cpe-24-29-158-198.nyc.res.rr.com X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov) X-User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.9) Gecko/20050711 Thunderbird/1.0.5 Mnenhy/0.7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at cs.mu.OZ.AU X-Path: comp-std-cpp-robomod!not-for-mail X-Received: (from fjh@localhost) by mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.9/Submit) id j74GBu6K000953; Fri, 5 Aug 2005 02:11:56 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU: fjh set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-Newsgroups: comp.std.c++ Xref: g2news1.google.com comp.std.c++:1656 Hyman Rosen wrote: > kuyper@wizard.net wrote: > >> The constructs in C++ that guarantee a specific order of operation are >> few; > > > Really? Let's count some. > > 1) Sequence of statements: > f(); g(); h(); > > 2) Comma operator (but not if user-defined!): > f(), g(), h(); > > 3) Initializers: > int a = f(), b = g(), c = h(); > int a[] = { f(), g(), h() }; > > 4) Constructors: > struct s { int a, b, c; s() : a(f()), b(g()), c(h()) { } }; > > 5) Function arguments: > p = strchr(++p, '.'); > > 6) Short-circuited boolean operators (but not if user-defined!): > f() && g() || h(); > > 7) ternary operator: > f() ? g() : h(); > > 8) Control constructs: > if (f()) g(); > while (f()) g(); > do f(); while(g()); > > 9) Combinations of user-defined operators (but not built-in ones!): > struct x { x &operator++(int) { return *this; } > x &operator=(const x &) { return *this; } }; > x a; > a++ = a; Heh, heh, heh. After having read Mr. Kuyper's post, I was like "said what???" and felt compelled to produce a similar list, just to see the one above a minute later. :o) > Is it? With the language as it currently is, adopting this style > means adding extra variable or reference declarations for intermediate > expressions. With template metaprogramming so popular, it's possible > that the types for those declarations aren't readily available, or are > hideously long and complicated. And then again, worst of all, the manifestation of forgetting to use the more verbose style (which I agree it seldom improves readability) is not hard errors; it's soft errors and nonportable behavior that "works" by sheer luck on some machines and yields hard-to-track problems on others. > If they can't see that having gratuitously unspecified constructs in > something intended to drive the behavior of a machine makes absolutely > no sense, there's nothing I can really do about it, except to keep > plugging away and hope that their point of view becomes so in the > minority that it will be ignored. Speaking of which, are you planning to embark on a proposal? Andrei --- [ comp.std.c++ is moderated. To submit articles, try just posting with ] [ your news-reader. If that fails, use mailto:std-c++@ncar.ucar.edu ] [ --- Please see the FAQ before posting. --- ] [ FAQ: http://www.jamesd.demon.co.uk/csc/faq.html ]