From 3419436638452607925 X-Google-Thread: f78e5,6294651cbc4b105c X-Google-Attributes: gidf78e5,public X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Path: g2news1.google.com!news3.google.com!news2.google.com!newsread.com!news-xfer.newsread.com!news-feed01.roc.ny.frontiernet.net!nntp.frontiernet.net!newshosting.com.MISMATCH!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!216.196.98.140.MISMATCH!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!local01.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.speakeasy.net!news.speakeasy.net.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 13:30:07 -0500 Return-Path: X-Authentication-Warning: mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU: fjh set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov) Delivered-To: std-c++@ucar.edu From: Marc Schoolderman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.6) Gecko/20050319 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.std.c++ Subject: Re: C++ standard life cycle References: <1125063434.798372.40210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <9gHPe.799$5k1.691@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <430f74ae$0$18647$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <431085f9$0$742$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl> Organization: Tiscali bv X-Complaints-To: abuse@tiscali.nl X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ucar.edu X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at cs.mu.OZ.AU Approved: Fergus Henderson , moderator of comp.std.c++ X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at cs.mu.OZ.AU Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 13:25:48 CST Lines: 48 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.182.171.162 X-Trace: sv3-qCqLLVOIjVxN3YNLXhS0c7CY60gvkcUDbuVDbow5k/aVRzyTuJ5xahtnROucnIAxIm4QCrHP36dbpRP!G707OS46TxO6P5YHjjPlF7EKKUb3SyIPkQiEDBFal0tAowbZ19TETazfAg3Bao3y/641MYqqxuga!o4zNMylFC/2xJvLABp5dVEEMAIRAo38UGto= X-Complaints-To: abuse@speakeasy.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse@speakeasy.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.32 Xref: g2news1.google.com comp.std.c++:1953 Marc Mutz wrote: > First, (...) API consistency is very important for the ease-of-use of a > language, and C++ fares very badly in this regard. In any case, the standard C library is much worse. I also don't think popular scripting languages like Python and perl are exemplary in this regard. > Second, the C++ standardized (even when including boost > here) libraries are way too low-level. I agree, but on the oter hand, ISO C also has a weak standard library, but there you have external standards (POSIX/SUSv3) which build on it, and a lot of widely available libraries. IMHO, C++ is missing those external bindings. Even if I just want to use C++ simply as a better C and not bother with templates and classes, e.g. by just using 'string', namespaces and function overloading, I run into issues, since a lot of interfaces are designed for pure C. Many people wouldn't care that the C++ Standard doesn't have sockets or threads if there were an external standard "POSIX/C++" or whatever. > Third, the reluctance to change the core langauge. (...) > Or maybe the need for a lambda library just > shows that C++ badly lacks a foreach keyword. Personally, I'd rather see C++ adding support for nested functions (or closures, or whatever you want to call them) since this is a more general solution, and easy to learn. Lambda abstractions and "foreach" serve pretty specialised needs. But I doubt just changing or adding to the language like this would convince people to 'ditch' C in favor of C++. And actually; *Has* the free software community 'firmly rejected' C++? Aren't there lots and lots of Qt apps and isn't KDE the default desktop environment in most Linux distributions? ~Marc. --- [ comp.std.c++ is moderated. To submit articles, try just posting with ] [ your news-reader. If that fails, use mailto:std-c++@ncar.ucar.edu ] [ --- Please see the FAQ before posting. --- ] [ FAQ: http://www.jamesd.demon.co.uk/csc/faq.html ]